Official Code of Conduct for Matrix and IRC channels #991
Conversation
Initial version, modified from Covenant Contributors. Took into account critics from sech1 and jeffro.
- Edited bad behavior regarding sexual/pornography. Pornography sharing is inacceptable. - Removed All I have to know I learned in kindergarten. - Added "intend" and "do not intend" section, this should cover the expectations around political discussions and culture war. - Added a community moderators section, regarding what is a moderator, how to become one and how to remove one.
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care to explain how this resolves #899? |
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That doesn't resolve moderation overreach. It's just a vague "mission statement". The rest of the document is written poorly "act stupidly". Are mods accountable for their actions? |
The overall document permit users to know what behavior is considered a violation. If moderators are tripping, this document can be used by users to report power abuse by showing that their actions do not enter the several unacceptable behavior quoted. Thus the following sentence:
You can understand by community pleading, any form of actions and/or communications with the intent of reporting an observed unfairness. It is pretty obvious that the removal of moderator is acted by the moderators themselves, as they are the one with permissions, and that generally going against the community opinion (without proper reasons) will quickly lead into people fleeing the channels.
You may be surprise to hear that after trying to discuss that with everyone on Matrix, this has been a recurrent expression. And I think it is fair to use as it shows that the community is expecting members to make efforts.
If by "in rooms they dont even participate in", you mean rooms outside of #monero-*:
If you happen to have beef with the moderators outside of monero space, it is not this CoC problem to resolve. However, if they do threaten to take actions against you based on behavior outside of the space, you can use the CoC doc to report a power abuse to the community.
Agree to disagree |
Mods (specifically scott) are banning and muting users because they feel like it. Scott spent years feeling good about keeping rotten banned. I got rotten unbanned, and he's been on a revenge mission since. Dan/bob was muted by scott for asking (in resolutions) for them to reverse ercicciones rage-ban. Erc was mad that i fixed the haveno room, and was omw to fix website and translation, so he banned me from them. Xmrscott told dan/bob to tell me that i should "ask jwinterm for screenshots" if i need access to finish my work.
its pretty simple. Common courtesy.
wrong. only server admin can demote an admin and only admins can demote moderators.
i dont care how many people said it. Stupid is "stupid" language.
No. I DO mean #monero- rooms.
these are all #monero namespace. I am only banned in #monero- rooms. Not banned in feather, cake, no wallet left behind, haveno, xmrbazaar, wownero, particl, kernal, etc etc. the Banhammer was actually banned by tobtoht from feather and kicked from cake by vik - both of which unbanned me when they found out i had been banned. and ive only been banned by scott (current admin), sgp (former), and erc (former). The latter 2 stepped down from their positions for the same reason - overstepping.
correct. not sure why
not relevant. Im not banned anywhere else. |
You fucking jackass. |
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There seems to unsurprisingly be some malicious outright lying by ofrnxmr in a weird attempt to argue against a changed CoC so I'll quickly correct a few of the many lies here:
rotten was banned for several violations of the existing CoC / ToS and declining to agree upon being asked to adhere to them. He has since agreed to them and was subsequently unbanned which I am happy for. ofrnxmr had 0 influence in mods unbanning rotten, as much as ofrnxmr likes to make themselves the center of attention such as abusing the CCS as a donation address instead of milestones such as here: "explicitly requesting donations for my existence, and not "payment" for milestones."
dan was muted in -resolutions after being given a warning to stay on topic. The mute was removed when sufficient time had passed. Examples 1-2: ofrnxmr lied to moderators that he could not perform work with an IRC account and therefore should be granted a Matrix ban exception in -gui. He was shortly after found to have lied about unviability of using his IRC account and the Matrix mods unanimously removed the ban exception that was predicated on a lie to mods. Examples 3-4: ofrnxmr lies in the comment above that "Rucknium spoke with scott and unbanned me in -beef.". Rucknium did not actually speak before unbanning. Much like examples 1-2, there wasn't a good reason to grant exemptions. The ban was for monero-* consistency especially since someone who is known to blatantly lie shouldn't be in -beef as lies run counter to the intent of -beef.
Example 5: xmrscott is in fact active across rooms including -support and has pointed people in -support to resources such as getmonero.org and monero.stackexchange.com where answers to questions can be indexed by search engines instead of hidden in a Matrix room Example 6: luigi asked without knowing context as ofrnxmr's modus operandi is usually to make requests of individual by telling half truths, or otherwise omitting or lying to get some desired reaction that wouldn't happen if full context was known as ofrnxmr also did with Datahoarder. Once context was known, the desire by luigi to have ofrnxmr unbanned in -beef was removed. Case in point the -beef ban remains in place. In fact, as ofrnxmr was making an emotional outburst, luigi commented that "ofrnxmr you're not really helping your case" Example 7: "the same ban that scott muted dan over" See -resolutions comment prior to example comments.
tobtoht also unbanned naphtha who was banned by several mods across several rooms for various LiberaChat violations including deaths threats. Therefore tobtoht does not make for a good appeal to authority.
They did not in fact step down for overstepping. They had other reasons; ofrnxmr as usual likes to put lies in people's mouths. I would generally recommend that people when discussing CoC not take ofrnxmr's comments too seriously based on past behavior like making a donation address request in the form of a CCS, generally lying, and notable members of the community like kayabaNerve calling ofrnxmr a bad actor by the existing CoC: "By my own opinion, by the opinion of others, and I believe by ofrnxmr themselves, ofrnxmr is unrepentantly offensive. That does classify them as a bad actor per that definition.". It should therefore be unsurprising that someone who is classified as a bad actor within the community would lie. Undoubtedly ofrnxmr AKA nahuhh,someone who hates basic CoCs, or someone who has interests in enabling bad actors will try to make some other set of arguments based on further lies, but I believe I have commented enough here to demonstrate his fondness of lying to not need to expose every lie that ends up on this PR by such individuals. |
i literally wrote his response
that was a verbatim request from kaya
youre a liar.
again. Youre a liar. I never made any such claim, and you have no power in gui on irc
perhaps i was mistaken. I believe i recall rucknium saying that he had spoken with you. Either way, you banned me form beef because youre a bitch, and ruck left the room because youre a child
lmao. I spend damn near an entire year being incredibly active in that room and never say you once.
rucknium unbanned in beef, and i asked datahoarder and rucknium if it could be mirrored on irc.
No, my outbursts arent emotional. You're a coward, thats just stating the facts. Youre the worst mod monero has EVER seen.
Speak for yourself. everybody respects tobtoht more than they do you, in every facet. Better than you at everything, AND people respect him.
wrong again. Erc wanted to play admin and refuse to contribute, so he was asked to step down. sgp stepped down because he was "unable to do the moderation that he wanted".l aka because his attempts to power trip were met with resistance by everyone in the community.
I would recommend you gfy. You and 20 bots agree.
Did anyone thing i was someone else?
talk about putting words in mouths
🥲🥲 coming from the mod who lets socks spam the rooms and does absolutely nothing to moderate actual bad actors - and who mutes and bans contributors (not named ofrn)
only liar here is you, xmrscott. You have some serious issues.
enabling bad actors? why dont you tell the world who spammed ccs and monero- rooms with banofrn accounts |
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@xmrscott is the most pathetically dishonest coward ive ever come across. lmao, wow. literally revised history. Every example i gave was factual and csn be verified by every person involved. xmrscott is a terrible liar. Like, he really just makes shit up and remembers whatever he wants to remember, tries to take things outbof context and add lies to them "dan was off topic" lmfao what? Youre a fucked up guy 😆! lmao @xmrscott lets have an election. I'm willing to bet the community votes your lying ass out its not simply that you have no conflict management skills, youre the weakest person in any conversation. You abuse your power because without your banhammer, you're a weak person and nobody would ever follow your lead. Someone like you can never lead anyone, not even yourself. You need to be coddled and pampered or you throw tantrums. |
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As much as I like dipping into drama as a source of entertainment, this is beyond my understanding and I do not pretend to represent the perfect justice. It's only natural that you two argue about each other, knowing the past hostility. But I hope you will excuse me for ignoring your beef comments. @nahuhh regarding your concern of a mod power abusing in the #monero-* space. As I said earlier, if this is merged, you'll be able to use this document as a resource for appeal, and mods will have to conform to this document, meaning your fear of scott making solo decision should end up bad in the eyes of other moderators (if this is unreasonable). From what I understand of your comment, you're frustrated because it do not resolve your actual situation at all. I just want to say that I need to make assumptions regarding the current state, because otherwise we'll never do anything. Rome wasn't built in a day, and I consider this CoC as a good starting point for building a saner place. I know you don't like this CoC, but you'll always be able to make a PR with changes if you feel like it. |
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why tagging sgp?
We already have appeals, #monero-resolutions, which xmrscott mutes users and decides himself what he wants to do.
I dont fear scott making solo decisions, its simply evidenced that he does, and does so against the will of community leaders such as rucknium, plowsof and selsta.
This CoC falsely claims to "resolve 899".
Another CoC for users was never necessary.
Community ran just fine before scott started revenge banning.
Has nothing to do with "like". It claims to resolve an issue that it doesnt even begin to address.
It's not currently merged and isnt needed. What is needed, is a set of rules and guidelines for mods to abide by, and a process to replace mods. Abuse of power is the issue, not laws for users. 899 has nothing to do with users behavior, and everything to do with opportunistic admins and moderators abusing their positions to benefit themselves at the detriment to monero (contributors leaving). |
This is absolutely not what it is. I'm not supporting sgp or being against users, knowing my own intents it is pretty hard to not consider these conclusions as lies or bad faith arguments. I've the impression you either select what you talk about or just straight up don't understand what you read. To speak frankly, it is already hard for me to decide on a personal level about you, as you seems to always be against whatever I say and sometimes say childish things (I did see your tweets). On the other end, I've friends that are friend with you and are always telling me you're someone right. This is disappointing. And this is my personal opinion, not some sgp-indoctrinated one, as your message would probably make people think it is. I did not expect to answer that way but I think it's necessary. I'm waiting for comments from core, and I'll ignore any beef one. As said earlier, agree to disagree. Feel free to have the last word if you feel like it |
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@SyntheticBird45 why do you keep mentioning sgp??
you don't even seem to know any context, which shows your making false claims about resolving 899 without knowing anything about it. this is a CoC, written by you, that has no relation to past grievances of the community aside from whatever you tell yourself or, perhaps, what you have been told by people who make things up as they go im not claiming you had bad intents, but you are trying to play the the "hero" and this CoC is even well written. I don't know why you woke up and decided that you should pretend to know what you're doing in regards to managing a workgroup or a group of workgroups. Wasnt curate previouslt your workgroup? Why not try implementing a CoC there first? Why come over to monero to pretend to be some sort of hero, as if users were ever the problem. PS. in case you were unaware, sgp and scott are diff ppl |
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Ofrn criticizing this proposal over the quality of the writing is quite amusing when the overwhelming majority of his own could easily be mistaken for the drunken ramblings of a semi-literate child. If anyone's concerns are actually just in the quality, concision, or coherence of the document itself then I'm happy to offer my editing abilities, something I have formal experience with in the past though not under this moniker. Personally, however, I think its intention is perfectly clear as-is and suspect the critical parties are simply concern trolling. |
Any grammar correction would be greatly appreciated. You can make a PR on my repo: https://github.com/SyntheticBird45/meta/tree/master |
- fixed minor grammar errors - changed members to participants across the board since nobody is carrying cards or paying dues - avoided using terms such as rules, punishments, etc since they carry baggage - kept an active tense throughout the document - moved Scope section to directly follow the pledge for coherency, and collapsed the intended/not intended into scope for brevity
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I just opened the following PR: SyntheticBird45#1 |
edits to CHANNELS_CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
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Merged @yasabi changes 👌 |
Help at resolving: #899
Why ?
Frustration have grown in the community regarding moderation and general health of the project. The community is vital to the Project, and it is important that an effort is made to promote an healthy place for developers and users to cooperate.
The CoC
The following Code of Conduct is a modified version of the Covenant Contributor's CoC, that take into consideration the culture of the Monero space by redefining the desired rules often heard in discussions and by eliminating the social aspect described by the original document. This should, with common sense, help at resolving some situations in the future.
Typos
This document may contains typo, I'm not English native. Reporting spelling and grammar mistakes, is greatly appreciated.
Discussions
Any point of this document might be discussed and the PR will stay as a draft until consensus is found