sig-economics - Add meeting 8 notes and update README

sig-economics/meetings/008-2023-09-06.md

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+---
+title: "Economics SIG Meeting #8"
+key: "sig-economics-meeting-8"
+date: 2023-09-06T18:00:00Z
+contributors:
+
+
+- Andrew Gnatyuk
+- Andrew Mello
+- Boz Menzalji
+- Cheng Wang
+- Joao Luna
+- Max
+- Poroburu
+- Robert Del Rey
+- Robert Koschig
+- Scott Hewitson
+- Tyler Wright
+- Zach Horn
+
+
+---
+
+# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #8
+
+## Agenda
+
+* Updates since last monthly sig-economics meeting.
+* Open up to community for ideas or concerns
+
+## Meeting Details
+
+- Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2023
+- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time)
+- [Recording](https://nlzzmaec3zpmorkyh3f4w3tep2hy444funhf645cqroo7x4qtusa.arweave.net/avOWAILeXsdFWD7Ly25kfo-Oc4WjTl9zooRc79-QnSQ)
+- [Transcript](#transcript)
+
+## Participants
+
+- Andrew Gnatyuk
+- Andrew Mello
+- Boz Menzalji
+- Cheng Wang
+- Joao Luna
+- Max
+- Poroburu
+- Robert Del Rey
+- Robert Koschig
+- Scott Hewitson
+- Tyler Wright
+- Zach Horn
+
+## Notes
+
+1. **Introduction and Updates**  
+   - Scott Hewitson opened the meeting, thanked Tyler for hosting the previous session, and provided updates. Tax rate change for the community pool and an inflation proposal have been enacted. Cloudmos acquisition proposal has passed.
+
+2. **Incentives and Future Plans**  
+   - Cheng Wang presented the rationale behind increasing the community pool to create incentives for both supply and demand in their two-sided marketplace. A GitHub discussion for community feedback will be set up before any proposal is made.
+
+3. **Bounties and Community Engagement**  
+   - Tyler & Scott are leading efforts to flesh out the bounties program for content creation, code contributions, etc. Scott added that the funds come from the Community Support Proposal.
+
+4. **Community Questions**
+    - **Question 1**: Andrew Gnatyuk asked if it would be possible to track statistics related to the take rate.  
+      - **Answer**: Cheng Wang said it is a metric that is important and we will need to find the best way to show it. Currently, you can look at the community pool to see amounts.
+    - **Question 2**: Scott inquired about the timeline for introducing IDPs (Inter-Dependent Pools), emphasizing the importance of community feedback for its successful implementation.  
+      - **Answer**: Cheng responded by saying there is no set timeline for this as the community pool is the catch all at the moment. The timing of this depends on development priorities and other factors.
+
+5. **Closing Remarks**  
+   - Importance of community participation was highlighted for upcoming GitHub discussions and proposals.
+
+### Action Items
+
+All are welcome to contribute! Anyone who wants to contribute please visit sig-economics in the [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/akash)
+
+## Transcript
+_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._
+
+Scott Hewitson: All right, we live. It is Wednesday, September 6th. And this is the eighth iteration of the state economics call. Actually wasn't here last time. So Tyler, thank you for helping out with that. Looks like last in the last call, we were talking a little bit about the not take great, but the tax to the community pool going up to 25% and then the subsequent inflation proposal change in the time, that's happened. We've had the cloud most acquisition proposal go through. And then also may not six, which is, everybody knows at this point in we have one proposal currently active. It's the take great for axlr usdc.
+
+Scott Hewitson: so, if anyone has not voted on any of those please do, Yeah, at this point I'll let Cheng if you'd like to talk about anything or we can open it up to questions. I know there's been a lot going on since. So yeah, we'll just open up the floor.
+
+Cheng Wang: Thank you, tie for the coverage last weekend, really this week with, I think fairly light on the economics front. But as far as things are happening right now or things that have happened in the most recent, passing all the things that we've covered historically have already gone through, The biggest thing now is more forward looking so one of the reasons why we proposed the increase to the community pool is to really gear up and kind of grease the skids right for incentives to later on, come to bear and come to fruition. And those incentives could be both on the demand side as well as the supply As you know, know we have a two-sided marketplace and we need a bootstrap, supply and demand right? Just based on the needs of the network. And the reason why these incentives and good trapping is really important is you want to give an injection of energy into the system so that it can grow faster than any can. Otherwise,
+
+Cheng Wang: On organically. So I want to definitely put in the record for everyone to hear read.
+
+Cheng Wang: And just digest that I think in the near future within probably, the next I would say, a couple of weeks or so, We should have probably submitted a discussion within, github per usual just, to get community feedback prior to send submitting, any sort of spend proposal on chain, right? So the thought there's some internal modeling going on and discussions around, which side for instance what chips, etc. So all those things are absolutely critical to, make those decisions early on, right and said some guardrails and engage the community and discuss openly about what, some of those inputs are and what some of those assumptions might be and ultimately lay the groundwork for the initial salvo of incentives, right? Both potentially on demand side or supply side, It's still some things we need to work out. Ultimately I think both need to happen in some way, shape, or form, so yeah, that's currently what we've
+
+Cheng Wang: Going on, I thinking and particularly, in background before we present something to the community, just, as always, we want to Make sure that these things are as Thought out, while articulated and well backed up as possible, So that when the questions do come, we do have the answers and to the extent that we'll learn from it.
+
+Cheng Wang: Many questions or thoughts. Comments on that.
+
+Cheng Wang: All right, cool. And I guess there's one. Sorry. Did you want to go ahead?
+
+Scott Hewitson: Are. No, if you didn't have anything else. I was just gonna open the floor to anyone who has any other, questions, or concerns related to see economics at large.
+
+Cheng Wang: Yeah, just have one item that I wanted to talk about as well, which is, I suppose, this is related to all many other cities and working groups. But no, economics will be the focus of that is additional bounties and incentives. Of course, that we want to get into the cadence of doing. So right now things that are helping power, the community power, akash and are what let's see community events, Being able to engage the community and send me members out and representing a koch network. I think that's really novel, really powerful something, we've been doing consistently a HACKATHON, our first of its kind, or I've been able to do that consistently as well. I think going forward, we'll see how this one turns out. We're trying to get some additional information from Dora Hacks to really understand what kind of activity is percolating. Beneath the surface and really get some transpar.
+
+00:05:00
+
+Cheng Wang: Understanding how that's working out right? That's To another thing I think is website build out. I think both Arthur Piush newcomer right here as well as others in the community have contributed to countless other insiders. EJ etc, Andrew right here on the call.
+
+Cheng Wang: And then not to mention, of course Cloud most and Maxine I think Max just jumped in a little a minute or two ago. But yeah, we definitely want to continue to build out the bounties program for different things that the network needs. As we continue to grow. That range is anywhere from video content creation, clipping all that kind of stuff, To other things that we haven't Thought about, contributing to code. Of course, that's another thing that's hugely important, To add to the engineering prowess of the core team will be incredible, I think from the community. But that's, of course, the difficult bridge to cross, just given the expertise needed there in a difficulties there, but, just want to lie. Everyone know the chorus and civil war. I'm trying to say is we will be working really hard and he is at the tip of the spear here to help expand and to use a flesh out the bounties program for all the things that a cautious network needs. Now that we have a couple of things in the
+
+Cheng Wang: Can we have a good cadence going on as we go forward? We definitely want to build on those successes and try out new programs.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Thanks for that. And I think for those that may not fully be aware, so that the bounties he's talking about or come from the community was, 208 community support proposal. That's got the vanguards, some bounties and then note taking all of that is being reported against and there's a nice dashboard for it. I can link it a little bit later. So we're just trying to just grow the network and, Reward those that that are doing so.
+
+Scott Hewitson: So with that, does anyone have any issues concerns things that they'd like to bring up? And the open setting that we hopefully can address?
+
+Scott Hewitson: Going once.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Alrighty. …
+
+Cheng Wang: Yeah, electric car concerns.
+
+Scott Hewitson: I think I
+
+Scott Hewitson: Yeah, so I mean that's all I didn't have anything other than that today Cheng sounds like you have anything else to that. If nobody else has anything, we can adjourn and keep building.
+
+Cheng Wang: Yeah, I would just end with one thing real quick. I think Luna said he'll type something, but one thing I want to emphasize is,…
+
+Scott Hewitson: Up.
+
+Cheng Wang: Please do keep your head up for things that are gonna happen and Github discussions. Of course, as usual. All Proposals, before they become proposals, right are sent and github discussion. So the community has time to give feedback and we can engage with the community, learn and address any sort of concerns before they actually get through to governance. So please do keep an eye out for that in the coming weeks. We'll likely be submitting stuff for discussions there. And in terms of specifically around who trapping supply and demand and incentives around that.
+
+Cheng Wang: Sound description. Make sense at other cosmos tokens thinking, as diversified. Does this make sense from economics perspective? So as far as the community pool, I don't know how we would do that. The only way that I've seen that, I understand would work just naturally is the take rate. So as we support more and more different currencies and multi-currency support for, paying for computer resources, as the take rate hits, right? That take rate is taken and put into the new pool at least for now until other IDP accounts are created later on.
+
+Cheng Wang: And so, for example, USD is actually as workloads are paid for in usdc. The community pool will begin to create that particular currency. And similarly, as if the community wants a atom as a supported currency to pay for compute, that's another one that can be added right to the pool that So it's a kind of organic method as people as Governance apparatus approves more currencies to be used for workloads on a class network. Those particular currencies are taken in added to the community pool. And so that's a really good clean loop, I think. But did you have any other thoughts or ideas behind that implementation,
+
+00:10:00
+
+Cheng Wang: Okay, sounds good.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I think, I mean theoretically, somebody could throw up a community support or community spend proposal that says, Hey, I'm gonna take 50 Grand Akt, then switch it to Adam and then I'll send it back to the pool. But I mean, I don't know if that's really what we're trying to get done. But yeah, no, it's interesting.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Change. If you could because I did see some traffic on. the pool like everything from take rates going to the community pool at the moment. Do you have a timeline or just an idea or can give people an idea what we're thinking of adding the IDPs. So, anyone who's not aware So, we have in Akt, 2.0, The big overarching thing. There's these separate pools or the money, The funds will flow. I just wondering saying If you've got any ideas about timing or…
+
+Cheng Wang: Also time.
+
+Scott Hewitson: expectations for the IDPS,
+
+Cheng Wang: Great question. Timing. Wise, I don't know, I'm not a developer, so I can't actually go and build it. There is however, Github discussions post regarding IDP, that you guys can look at, I'll try to fish it out, but it is definitely worthwhile taking a look at.
+
+Cheng Wang: But yeah, there is an existing github discussions to, engage community about building the IDP right. And so I don't think that's gained too much traction. I can resurface it and, add a couple of things to it. But yeah as far as timing goes, it's really just based on engaging the community, get everyone's feedback on it. I know it's basically on chain accounting, It's not the sexiest thing in the world. I don't think before let me get a hand at this, So I'm sure people aren't clamoring for it but it's definitely something necessary that needs to be done. Organization is paramount, and really clearly deleting any funds is just like how when we send the government proposals, everything is clearly delineated. This is for that because our rationale, I'm here the numbers, right? All that stuff needs to be outline. And I think having building out the IEP, is something that all to be discussed. At least everyone should be fully aware. What it
+
+Cheng Wang: the intended use cases and categories are, but then again not it isn't like a deal breaker per se. Because we do have the community pool as a stand-in, And so we kind of as maybe Timing-wise practically speaking as we use engage with the community pool more and more for bounties for different things, that will be a creative and add value to the network, the kind of IDP originally as invised would, maybe, be confirmed, and I think in maybe a few months time towards early next year, might be a good time to examine once we have, sufficient amount of information and data behind us to justify, right? One set of rsus another versus right now, is more of just like a little bit of a guesswork, and theory, crafting versus having something in practice that we can really non. And in terms of actual experience,
+
+Cheng Wang: To build, the IDP out rather. Yeah.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Thanks for that explanation. Andrew, what's up? I was waiting for you.
+
+Andrew Gnatyuk: My baby is screaming out loud here and she's destroys the apartment help you get to them, don't hear? It's okay in the silent mode. But my question is, since we already implemented the taker and Maker piece, we will be able to see the statistics, for example, for that current water or amounts of how many fees or we collected. And from any of them, went to the community pool.
+
+Cheng Wang: I think so, the on-chain tracking of Taker maker, you can definitely see in the community pool, As far as I think, if you look at the transaction going into the pool, that is a good question. And embarrassed to say, I don't know exactly how we will look into. I'm sure that it's on chain metadata somewhere in the JSON per block for the take fees. I good question. I'll get back to you on that. You definitely will see if it's all on chain. It should all be recorded somewhere, right? Yeah. Hey tie. And bill me out.
+
+Tyler Wright: Yeah, the only thing I'll add is I know during the test net, sandbox process. We tested take pay and take rate and we just made sure that everything was able to go. Where it said it was going to go. So there is a way to at least track that when usdc's use that again that take pace being taken and it's going into the community pool. I think Scott was able to do it people from the community. So I'll get more information on how but I know that something that is able to be seen for folks like Yeah.
+
+00:15:00
+
+Cheng Wang: Yeah, the data has to exist, right? Yeah, yeah exactly.
+
+Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, because basically that's the stats that people are just gonna ask when you just comment the telegraph groups and they're Okay, so How many did we collect? Are we on a good step or you should be improve thumbs or should we be rewarding that's all they care about the talking price and why it's not a hundred bucks yet. And please do we have
+
+Cheng Wang: There exactly. No. So I think it is definitely a metric that we need to measure ourselves by it's a second order metric from the actual turnover or revenue of the network itself, Is the take these for With you there we'll get an answer for you as point.
+
+Scott Hewitson: One thing I will add. So I just dropped a link to. So, I mean it's also what minskan is willing to show, I know, so I just put in the osmosis community pool so you can see the other tokens that are there. So, Mint scan natively shows the other tokens in the community pools. But we don't have, so I expect when Usdc and then you will be able to see that directly.
+
+Scott Hewitson: Alrighty does if anyone has any other questions pill, feel free to raise your hand and ask otherwise we can adjourn for the day. And then as always if you have any other questions in between meetings, please go to discord and ask away. I know it's a little quiet in there but I'm always checking it. So,
+
+Scott Hewitson: Alrighty, thanks everyone. And I hope everyone has the good rest of their day and we'll talk to you soon.
+
+Tyler Wright: Thank you here.
+
+Andrew Gnatyuk: If okay thanks guys.
+
+Cheng Wang: Thank you. Thanks everyone.
+
+Scott Hewitson: All…
+
+Andrew Gnatyuk: Bye, have a nice day.
+
+Scott Hewitson: All right. Right.
+
+Cheng Wang: Take care. Thanks Andrew. See you. Bye everyone.
+
+Tyler Wright: Over.
+
+Meeting ended after 00:17:28