[testmerge probably idk] keep em guessing: nerfs and buffs dodge expert at the same time, makes the entire system just a little more performant, adds a baby version of the trait for dodge babies #1113
Conversation
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added a fix for wearing slot items that had ARMOR_CLASS_NONE |
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I've seen similar PR's like this on other servers and it always a result of people not understanding combat mechanics. Stuns, knockdowns, grabs, pain stuns, and now even feints all disable dodging. Things such as pain nerf its ability (meaning that being hit once can be enough to make dodge inefficient). Furthermore, if you're using a quick weapon dodge receives lessened ability. That's not to also mention that classes with dodge expert tend to be on the lower end of the END spectrum so they can effectively defend less. And everytime it's just resulted in dodge being pointless in most scenarios. To give in example, but in Stonekeep, when dodge expert was reduced to *12 it became better for Ranger which was one of the highest speed classes to parry with the hunting knife than it was to dodge. And stonekeep's defense value for weapons was/is far lower than AP's. In other words, if someone is dodge you can: swap to swift intent and grapple them; jump into them; pull out your dagger and stab them; throwing things at them; feint them. Dodge is really not that strong it's people just wanting to two-hand a greatsword and press LMB. And a reminder that to effectively use dodge you also need to forgo heavy armor. Even just using medium armor typically means it's better to just parry even if you have dodge expert. So if you get hit once there's a good chance you'll feel it as opposed to parry. Azure-Peak/code/modules/mob/living/roguetownprocs.dm Lines 413 to 414 in 189c73e It's similar to how people complain about ranged weapons when all they need to do is have a shield and actively use block intent with defense to not die. But since everyone wants to be running around with a greatsword everything that can't be solved with a left-click suddenly becomes too strong: you shouldn't be basing balancing decisions on seeing four people lose to dodge when one swift intent would've solved the problem. Furthermore, I don't get the logic of 'squires get adept because theyy're squires'. They already have lower speed than their RG counterpart which makes them worse at dodging, even if both have dodge expert. This would be like looking at their combat skills (that start at apprentice) and then applying a random divisor for some inexplicable reason. tl;dr the code clean up is cool; keep dodge expert as 15 for light; do not add in dodge adept (why would you ever dodge with dodge adept when you can easily get far better benefits utilizing parry with high defense weapons or a buckler AND will get to wear medium armor?) This really just dumbs down combat so John Zweihander has a better chance to left click instead of having to consider what they're doing. really tl;dr dodge adept is an incredibly useless feat |
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Having finally played a round with dodge adept, I can say that this perk made me FEEL useless, on god, I've never had a more stressing combat heavy round before (so much so that I decided to wait until virtues + statpacks are a thing to not stress myself further). I would have better chances going off using a shield with some minimal time spent on a training dummy than using having this dodge perk. This was tested when I had 12 speed btw. So dodge is supposed to be an alternative defense to parrying, which most people can't tap into without dodge expert to be viable, unless you have 14+ speed. Dodge users not only uses more stamina per defense but have absolute DOG str stats, so now that they can't dodge as well what are we supposed to do against heavy hitters and especially grappling? It was already the ultimate counter to dodging and it will only further make us useless for not having a 90% defence chance. One of the advantages that dodge used to have back then was that it was the only defense against grapple checks, but that was changed and now you can parry them as well, thats super fine. Another was that dodge couldn't be feinted and they changed it to make it so they could, which can lead to the deadly combo of feint + grab, but alright sure, at least we can attempt to sidestep until the debuff goes away. So now what advantages do dodging get against parrying to warrant these nerfs? So, to play a dodge user in PVP you have to watch out of all these things: people attempting to jump at you, people being on a straight tile to run into you, quick stance grabbing, your stamina (you use more than parrying), feinting, being put out of position vs haste users. All of these mental gymnastics while achieving terrible defence chances for when you DO get hit. As someone who only enjoys playing dodge builds, these changes will kill any variety along with my joy of playing on the server. So to recap, on top of all these things. We will have really bad chances of defense chances (anyone below 14 spd), are forced to wear light armor for really bad gains, will be glass cannons since almost no dodge class gets CON, and will lack STR too. So why even play a dodge type character if you can't even dodge? Not only would your char be weaker than everyone else, you can't even tap into the power fantasy of being able to dodge. tl;dr: perk kills the dodge playstyle for everyone that has the dodge adept perk unless they powergame 14/15 spd, then it becomes USABLE. |
About The Pull Request
changes a few things about dodge expert:
Why It's Good For The Game