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Adds Two Archetypes to Inquisitor #1084

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SirSwagmeyer
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@SirSwagmeyer SirSwagmeyer commented Dec 23, 2024

About The Pull Request

Inquisitors have always been the Ace in the hole against heresy, as the Captain is to the Keep, the Inquisitor is to the Church.

This PR gives the Inquisitor two additional archetypes for players who want to choose between different distinctive playstyles for Inquisitor. OG Inquisitor is still there.

Enjoy the original Inquisitor playstyle, but always wished you could be more subtle in finding HERETICS? Introducing...

THE EYE OF PSYDON

  • Classic Inquisitor drip with a much more underground twist.
  • Use listening devices, sneak into places to gather evidence, track down suspicious individuals.
  • Has relatively the same utility stats as Confessor, but fulfills a different niche in terms of their job as the head honcho.
  • Dodge expert!
  • High stealth, low stopping power.
  • Sneak into places, leave behind listening devices, collect evidence! No hidden heretic shall escape your eyes.

Enjoy a more boots-on-the-ground Inquisitor that VANQUISHES the forces of evil with whips and chains? Introducing...

THE FIST OF PSYDON

  • The get-your-hands-dirty, Die Hard type of Inquisitor.
  • Meant for confrontational, conflict-driven situations as opposed to simply sneaking around and asking questions.
  • Now you can test your mettle and fight those dirty heretics yourself with silver and strength.
  • Templar with none of the miracles, but with all the muscles and more.
  • Heavy armour!
  • Maces and Whips!
  • Extremely good martial stats, extremely low mobility.
  • Bring your Templar goons! Raid the Zhurch with zeal! Actually hold a chance against a Vampire Lord or Werewolf!

Why It's Good For The Game

Honestly, I just wanted to give Inquisitor some love since they recently got a bunch of new reliquary stuff. New archetypes means new inspirations to use them in different ways. Don't worry, you can still play as the original Inquisitor if you want.

The role itself, currently, feels like an everything-at-once job. For a single-slot, single-character role, they should have more agency in /what/ they should be good at - with the player's discretion of course. If you want to play that all-rounder, go ahead, I literally can't stop you.

Organizing Inquisitor into two additional distinct archetypes will help immensely with inviting more nuance to the overall round for players who aren't as experienced in Inquisition as most are nowadays. Differing playstyles and attitudes means different means of contributing to the rest of the round, and making a unique impact with every round.

Inquisitors should always evoke a sense of "Oh shit, they're here." vibe with heretics, and by providing the role with two additional niches the player can fulfill, they can STRONGLY evoke that sort of feeling more often.

Addressing Points of Contention

Yes, I am aware that I gave the Eye of Psydon subclass 3 speed/end and 5 in Lockpicking/Sneak - this is PURELY to make it at the very LEAST equivalent in infiltration skills to Orthodoxist Confessor. Trust me, I didn't want to put it in until I realized Confessor, an ASSISTANT job to the Inquisitor, had better stats than it did in my PR. It's one role anyway, so it shouldn't be as massively impactful as, say, the 5 different adventurer Rogues or the bandit Knave fullstack. It'll be negligible, and it's PURELY so Inquisitor can sneak in and put little listening devices into places. It'll be cool, trust the plan.

And yes, I gave both subclasses Master in Swords/Perception and Maces/Wrestling, respectively, if they were middle-aged. Considering they're a SINGLE-SLOT ROLE with a VERY IMPORTANT MISSION, they deserve to have master skills if their character seemed experienced enough. I am willing to tone it down to old characters only if I have to, but they deserve it.

@Luckydente
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I hate to be evil guy again but I think this kind of turns a unique class (insanly high stats, wide varity of expert skills) into "which way robustie? dodge expert and knives or any other weapon and heavy armor?" That almost every other class follows. In terms of this

Why do they have listening devices but no stealth skills?
so the confessor can place them. (or you can just place them without stealth just wait for ppl to leave a room)

Why do they spawn with zero armor and a rapier, but no dodge expert?
this is real actually, we had unique inquis armor sprited, someone (I) should probably code that.

Why do they spawn with heavy helmets and such in the reliquary, but... no actual armor?
think these were for the goons/recruited goons idk

Why do they get such a weirdly good across-the-board stat buff compared to every other role?
it what makes them unique. there statline is cracked for the downside of having medium armor. its an interesting way to play imo (also they can end up being minor antagonists which I think was the original reason)

I dunno. I dislike turning inquis into just better versions of their goons.

@radarseas
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radarseas commented Dec 23, 2024

I honestly wish witchhunters got the heavy leather coat. NOT sure how I feel about giving them dodge expert because consider this:

They have a 3 tile long ranged whip that peirces 40% of your armor per-strike, they're also expert-skilled in, alongside very good wrestling skill to break out of tackles and dunk on people.

Not even rogues get it this good. HOWEVER taking away the whip ruins the castlevania-esc vibes the role has and totally goes hard with.

@Ollanius
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I fuck stupendously heavy with this proposal.
As for your questions..

  • The listening devices are simple enough to plant without being detected, as long as you're out-of-eyesight for a few seconds. An Inquisitor can usually accomplish this by sweet-talking their way into a private area, slipping a listening device under a table-or-wall, and - if spotted - bluffing their way out of any accusatory questions. For situations where a listening device might need to be planted in an otherwise inaccessible area, the Inquisitor'd want to task their Confessor (or a hired Rogue) to do so.
  • Inquisitors are closer in design to the Monarch than any other role in the game. They're intended to be powerful figures that, while technically unarmored, can compensate through sheer martial prowess (by having above-average skills and statistics in everything related to combat) and financial expertise (by spawning with at least a hundred mammons in their pouch). If an Inquisitor wants to stow the silks away in favor of chainmail, they can easily do so.
  • Onutiso, bless her heart, introduced the Armets and Barbutes as a stylish alternative to the regular headwear given to Inquisitorial agents. While it might be more balanced to code in another loadout system that lets the Inquisitor and Orthodoxists select a single helmet of their choice upon spawning in, it's much easier to just stuff the embassy with those helmets and let 'em pick-and-choose at their leisure. This doesn't affect the ever-shifting scale of balance in any worrisome way.
  • Back in Roguetown's initial run, the Inquisitor - alongside a plethora of these Adventurer roles - were locked behind a paywall. Malange (or Zeth) wanted to follow Lifeweb's donation model, by letting donators have access to far-more-powerful roles. The paywall's been demolished for a long time now, and most of those now-playable roles haven't really been tweaked to account for the current playerbase. I think it's fine, personally, in the Inquisitor's case: he's the designated protagonist role, after all.

Personally, I'd suggest retaining the current Inquisitor (with his all-around superb statistics, training in medium armor, and combination of silks and a rapier) as a third archetype for those who prefer the classic, 'hardmode'-themed playstyle. Call it the 'HEART of PSYDON', perhaps, to emphasize their physical adeptness above all else?

@SirSwagmeyer
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I honestly wish witchhunters got the heavy leather coat. NOT sure how I feel about giving them dodge expert because consider this:

They have a 3 tile long ranged whip that peirces 40% of your armor per-strike, they're also expert-skilled in, alongside very good wrestling skill to break out of tackles and dunk on people.

Not even rogues get it this good. HOWEVER taking away the whip ruins the castlevania-esc vibes the role has and totally goes hard with.

I can give em 9 strength again to take off whip access I suppose if you're that opposed to one guy with a powerful whip going around. Not a big deal for me.

@SirSwagmeyer
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I fuck stupendously heavy with this proposal. As for your questions..

  • The listening devices are simple enough to plant without being detected, as long as you're out-of-eyesight for a few seconds. An Inquisitor can usually accomplish this by sweet-talking their way into a private area, slipping a listening device under a table-or-wall, and - if spotted - bluffing their way out of any accusatory questions. For situations where a listening device might need to be planted in an otherwise inaccessible area, the Inquisitor'd want to task their Confessor (or a hired Rogue) to do so.
  • Inquisitors are closer in design to the Monarch than any other role in the game. They're intended to be powerful figures that, while technically unarmored, can compensate through sheer martial prowess (by having above-average skills and statistics in everything related to combat) and financial expertise (by spawning with at least a hundred mammons in their pouch). If an Inquisitor wants to stow the silks away in favor of chainmail, they can easily do so.
  • Onutiso, bless her heart, introduced the Armets and Barbutes as a stylish alternative to the regular headwear given to Inquisitorial agents. While it might be more balanced to code in another loadout system that lets the Inquisitor and Orthodoxists select a single helmet of their choice upon spawning in, it's much easier to just stuff the embassy with those helmets and let 'em pick-and-choose at their leisure. This doesn't affect the ever-shifting scale of balance in any worrisome way.
  • Back in Roguetown's initial run, the Inquisitor - alongside a plethora of these Adventurer roles - were locked behind a paywall. Malange (or Zeth) wanted to follow Lifeweb's donation model, by letting donators have access to far-more-powerful roles. The paywall's been demolished for a long time now, and most of those now-playable roles haven't really been tweaked to account for the current playerbase. I think it's fine, personally, in the Inquisitor's case: he's the designated protagonist role, after all.

Personally, I'd suggest retaining the current Inquisitor (with his all-around superb statistics, training in medium armor, and combination of silks and a rapier) as a third archetype for those who prefer the classic, 'hardmode'-themed playstyle. Call it the 'HEART of PSYDON', perhaps, to emphasize their physical adeptness above all else?

Yeah, I spent like 3 hours arguing with Dente in the discount about how much he hates how all the changes are the same and how the old Inquisitor was perfect and whatnot, so I'll probably add the default Inquisitor as a third loadout to appease those people.

@radarseas
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radarseas commented Dec 23, 2024

I can give em 9 strength again to take off whip access I suppose if you're that opposed to one guy with a powerful whip going around. Not a big deal for me.

although then again, dodgers can be fiented now, I suppose its fine for the inquisitor. They are expected to fight stuff like vlords and that afterall, it'd probably be more of a player issue if it got abused.

@Alexi-6410
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Two quick things;

  1. For some reason, middle-aged Fist of Psydon gets +1 wrestling, but old gets +1 whips/flails? Not sure why aging transmutes their wrestling skill into whips/flails, I think that might be unintended? If not, my bad.

  2. I'm a little scared of a heavy-armor repenta en wielding inquisitor. Inquisitors are already one of the scariest combatants in the game, giving them heavy armor / dodge expert (the two best protection traits) feels unnecessary when they're already fantastic in combat.

@SirSwagmeyer
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SirSwagmeyer commented Dec 23, 2024

Two quick things;

  1. For some reason, middle-aged Fist of Psydon gets +1 wrestling, but old gets +1 whips/flails? Not sure why aging transmutes their wrestling skill into whips/flails, I think that might be unintended? If not, my bad.

Old geezah can't move like Undertaker no more since they're OLD. Fucked up to give them wrestling AND master whips.

  1. I'm a little scared of a heavy-armor repenta en wielding inquisitor. Inquisitors are already one of the scariest combatants in the game, giving them heavy armor / dodge expert (the two best protection traits) feels unnecessary when they're already fantastic in combat.
    The Inquisitor is one dude, they aren't indestructible or infallible or anything like that, and they're still subjected to metaprotections, powergaming rules, etc. That being said, Repenta En is the "Oh shit" factor when the Inquisitor finally comes in swinging, but that isn't an instant-win card either (17 speed rapier dodge). It's meant to be a powerful potential threat that heretic antags should constantly be on watch for. It's meant to be scary and powerful. Ideally, the Inquisitor will rarely need to use it.

If an Inquisitor is going around immediately resorting to killing valids with Repenta En, that's a player issue and not an issue with the mechanics themselves. Part of being in a leadership position like Inquisitor is being responsible with your gamer gear.

@SirSwagmeyer SirSwagmeyer changed the title Inquisitor Rework!!! Now with 200% more Inquisitor!! Adds Two Archetypes to Inquisitor Dec 23, 2024
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whew. bit much.

@SirSwagmeyer
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whew. bit much.

Resolved

@Ollanius
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Ollanius commented Dec 24, 2024

whew. bit much.

Do not touch my beloved statistics, or else I will turn you into one.

On that note, I think the Inquisitor being relatively strong - either close-to or on-par-with the Guard Captain - is fine. They're a fairly important role that's steeped in combat, and one who's presence should be sensibly feared. The above-average skills and statistics are balanced by the lack of starting equipment, in my opinion.

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