Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: December 21st 16:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
16:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights

• Serai Update - Kayabanerve
• HackerSpace survey
• Bounty: FOSS point of sale app : Progress video: xcancel / tweeter
• PiNodeXMR update https://pinode.co.uk/
  News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - MoneroMoon issue 75

5. CCS updates
   b. XMRChat - a service for content creators to receive messages and tips in Monero.
   c. NoShore: Groundwork for on-the-go offline payments
   d. 0xfffc 3 months full-time dev.
   e. j-berman full-time development (4 months)
   f. tobtoht full-time feather + core development (3 months)
6. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2025
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
7. Open ideas time
8. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Logs

< plowsof > meeting in 44 mins #1130

< plowsof > meeting time #1130

< plowsof > greetings !

< m​ichael:monero.social > Hello.

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Hey.

< sneurlax > gmorning

< plowsof > update on Ruckniums wownero discovery: https://monero.observer/rucknium-discovers-critical-privacy-vulnerability-wownero-decoy-selection-algorithm/

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > ✌️ hi

< ofrnxmr > and Jeffro256 fixed it

< plowsof > a 15k wownero reward from wowneros ceo/general fund was sent to Rucknium via https://rucknium.me/donate/

< plowsof > an amount was also sent to Jeffro256 but im not sure if it where publicly disclosed somewhere 💪

< plowsof > ofrnxmr was the only person who contacted me to update my wownero nodes

< plowsof > (rottenwheel also mentioned it later) , just thought id thank them

< plowsof > i have to complete a survey today: HackerSpace survey

< ofrnxmr > Fwiw i dont think hackerspace is decided yet / is still being decided whether there will be one or not

< plowsof > a hackerspace could also encourage (or let patreons see fun stuff) like (monero payments on an off-the-shelf point of sale device) Bounty: FOSS point of sale app : Progress video: xcancel

< plowsof > depends how the hackerspace is defined (note:i need to read/complete the survey to find out :D )

< plowsof > a new bounty to get Featherwallet on Macs : https://bounties.monero.social/posts/167/15-000m-apple-developer-id-certificate-and-notarization-for-feather-wallet

< ofrnxmr > That POS looks good (video on the tweet link)

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Looks like Czarek Nakamoto is already on it.

< ofrnxmr > Feather's might be in progress, we'll know soon #feather

< plowsof > yep, sounds like it wont be long 👏

< tobtoht >_ couple days :)

< ofrnxmr > gate.io delisting xmr leveraged tokens and xmr perpetual futures

< plowsof > xmr remains still? i've never used gate io (only seen the support threads of people complaining about their customer service)

< plowsof > also never messed with leverage 😟

< plowsof > News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - MoneroMoon issue 75

< ofrnxmr > Gate has #1 xmr volume (allegedly)

< plowsof > nioCat wishes everyone a happy winter solstice

< plowsof > did they list haven by any chance, wonder what volume they had for that 😅

< plowsof > https://www.gate.io/price/haven-xhv

< plowsof > we can move on to the ccs ideas if nothing else comes up

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Haven is still a thing? I think even Cake is removing it from their app.

< ofrnxmr > Cske removed it a long time ago iirc?

< ofrnxmr > Haven was exploited. Another inflation bug

< plowsof > officially dead yes

< ofrnxmr > Yeah, project announced that they were handing it up

< j​0j0xmr:monero.social > Oh maybe for new wallets. Its still included in build process (for now).

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > Damn

< ofrnxmr > Hanging*. kaya said "They didn't call verBulletproofPlus. That was the issue."

< plowsof > wallet users that previously had haven , need to access their funds still.. so figure that one out

< plowsof > makes sense, disable for creating new wallets, but keep it in there

< y​osef33:matrix.org > ""They didn't call verBulletproofPlus." --- put politly.

< plowsof > ok lets the ccs ideas

< plowsof > b. XMRChat - a service for content creators to receive messages and tips in Monero.

< plowsof > TipXMR has officially handed the torch over to XMRChat

< ofrnxmr > For ppl who watch monerotopia episodes, youve probably seen xmrchat in action

< plowsof > one thing to note regarding the WASM milestone : convoluted / increasing the difficulty of the entire project . accouting for 48% of the funds - and undoubtedly playing a role in the delays and ultimate demise of TipXMR

< ofrnxmr > I dont see the 2 projects as "the same thing". Xmrchat is imo an evolution of tipxmr. utilizes lws instead of tipxmr's proposed wasm

< plowsof > if they had set out to not attempt to have a WASM wallet - the project would be alot simpler

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > Yep, we won't continue on tipxmr, glad that xmrchat is coming along so nicely and we don't want to hog CCS funds that won't be used. So the proposed solution seems ideal

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > In terms of technical implementation they are not the same, but in terms of utility for the streamer they are more or less interchangeable

< plowsof > alexanarcho - you have completed milestone 1 btw but did not yet claim it 😅

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > Yes, I agree with plowsof, xmrchat is simpler for development and using a client side wasm wallet doesn't give that big of an advantage

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > We did claim milestone 1 but the CCS was never updated. If there is anything I should do there pls let me know

< ofrnxmr > I think snex (banned) has tried xmrchat before. We need some streamers to give the self hosted versions a test run

< plowsof > a payout address (to receive the 1.x xmr under the proposal alex, thank you)

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > We already received the 1 xmr for the first milestone by luigi1111

< plowsof > one thing i question is: does there need to be a server where a fee model exists?

< plowsof > ah alex, thank you, will make sure that is updated

< plowsof > webContainers came 1 year after tipxmr was proposed on the ccs https://blog.stackblitz.com/posts/introducing-webcontainers/

< plowsof > just food for thought. theoretically a streamer can run everything in a tab window (monero wallet.. server and all) with the aid of a proxy to obscure their home IP - donors can connect and request subaddresses

< ofrnxmr > I think: xmrchat should be self hostable both for yourself and for others (so the hosted version is able to be hosted by anyone). Also that the fee should be able to be, ideally, scraped directly snd set per instance (not a donation freemium model)

< plowsof > but now: can focus on a server where a fee model is in place

< plowsof > confirming source is open/works is indeed a priority after Haveno api/gui issues

< a​lexanarcho:matrix.org > There is also shadowchat by Luke Smith that is self hostable. The goal for tipxmr originally was to target streamers that don't want to do that command line thing and just use the trusted ol browser.

< ofrnxmr > i dont think a hosted-only version fits the ethos of ccs

< ofrnxmr > It should be a public good

< plowsof > if xmrchat considers itself as not being a charity, then perhaps they can repay any funds awarded

< ofrnxmr > Users should be able to 1. Self host: no fees. 2. Self Host freemium: able to set a donation model 3. Hosted fee model: able to scrape a direct fee. 4. Use someone elses 2 or 3

< plowsof > as doug says "can't just be charity cases right, we need these tools to be self sufficient, they need to be earning money""

< plowsof > but have it on good authority that xmrchat and tipxmr are interchangeable (in the roles they serve) thanks for confirming alex

< ofrnxmr > xmrchat.monerokon.org for example, would allow monerokon to host their own instance. Xmrchat.com would allow anyone to use their instance xmrchat.xmr.ru would allow scraping fees for xmr.ru

< plowsof > that would be a "worst case scenario" ofrnxmr , competition

< ofrnxmr > competition is best case scenario

< plowsof > but how can my instance be profitable?

< ofrnxmr > Its not competition, its business. Xmrchat.coms official instance wouldnt want to host the types of streams that i want to host, if you get my drift

< plowsof > i need the big streamers to use my service

< ofrnxmr > And i'm not hosting for other ppl for free. Xmrchat official can host their PG-13 streams and follow sanctions etc

< ofrnxmr > I'll host my rated M streams from my sanctioned country

< ofrnxmr > It should be a public good. No requirement to use xmrchat's official instance vs self host. You should be able to use any instance, run a hosted instance, or self host. My 2c

< plowsof > so confirming its open source / works.... i don't support funding the fee models via crowd funding for a tool that the people who created it don't see it as being a charity (unless the monero community (tm) is handed the license)

< ofrnxmr > thats my point

< ofrnxmr > If the hosted instance is something that anyone can host, then theres no issue

< plowsof > licesne holders can change licenses if my understanding is correctly.

< plowsof > in the meantime i will make a merge request to repurpose the FULL amount of tipxmr or PART?

< plowsof > can discuss that in detail when its made and move on?

< ofrnxmr > i think full, but requiring proper testing for payouts

< ofrnxmr > Snex had some issues getting it working iirc

< plowsof > ok, lets move on for now

< plowsof > c. NoShore: Groundwork for on-the-go offline payments

< ofrnxmr > This ccs confused me ^. I think it takes spme inspiration from the gift card poc

< plowsof > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/525#who

< plowsof > 5 years of entering text into dns entries and some shell scripts on the gitlab may need more clarification as to where they fit into proving competency for this task. or is this a research task to see if its possible?

< ofrnxmr > This is something i think needs show and tell

< plowsof > sech1 was interested in this and spoke with the proposer about their ideas

< s​pirobel:kernal.eu > is there a tldr on how one could trust the offline payments outputs were not double spent?

< plowsof > the merchant needs a blockchain they trust somewhere

< plowsof > condense proposal, get people excited about it

< plowsof > moving on?

< plowsof > d. 0xfffc 3 months full-time dev.

< tobtoht >_ +1 from me

< ofrnxmr > +1

< plowsof > boog900 , jeffro256, selsta named in the proposal

< plowsof > thanks for feedback

< 0​xfffc:monero.social > ( just a extra context. Those are named in the context of tasks I have on my todo list )

< plowsof > looks like as feedback comes in, merging

< plowsof > moving on?

< 0​xfffc:monero.social > Thanks everyone, I hope I will be productive member of dev team. It is my honour.

< plowsof > e. j-berman full-time development (4 months)

< tobtoht >_ +1 i'm ok with 4 month proposals for long-term devs

< ofrnxmr > +1 to longer terms as well

< 0​xfffc:monero.social > ( minor extra context. Ccs will start after holiday )

< plowsof > thanks for feedback, looks mergable with the feedback as is

< plowsof > moving on?

< ofrnxmr > Yea

< plowsof > of course a more detailed comment from devs working closely with them is always welcome xD

< plowsof > f. tobtoht full-time feather + core development (3 months)

< plowsof > Featherwallet.org

< ofrnxmr > 0xfffc has helped me with (fixed) numerous wallet-rpc issues and improvements

< 0​xfffc:monero.social > Definitely a +1. Merge

< ofrnxmr > +1 tob

< ofrnxmr > (plowsof asking for direct commentary). There are 70+ commits in the dev merge queue, so personally ive slowed down testing because its too much for me to keep track of

< y​osef33:matrix.org > is offline signing really needed in this context ? When trying to onboard new users?

< plowsof > thanks ofrnxmr

< ofrnxmr > 70+ prs**

< plowsof > merge the tobtoht !

< ofrnxmr > Of course.

< tobtoht >_ thanks all :)

< plowsof > we're at the end of the impromptu-ish winter solstice meeting

< ofrnxmr > No were not!

< ofrnxmr > We need another 30mins to talk about qtip

< tobtoht >_ but wait there's more

< plowsof > people are syncing monero blockchains on cuprate daemons

< m​ichael:monero.social > Thanks for the good meeting and good moderation plowsof @plowsof:libera.chat: .

< ofrnxmr > We voted 2 weeks ago to close kewbits ccs - whats the status with that?

< plowsof > only updates from the CCS backend on qtip are waiting for expert witnesses to review the work (retroactive for the API payout) and current status

< ofrnxmr > at the time of vote, the code didnt work and he was acting in bad faith in numerous capacities. its been 2 weeks and (afaict) the code still doesnt work and it was just a few hours ago that he was impersonating me 🤔

< plowsof > there has been a commit to aloha's github repo - but this could be explained off by saying they where given access to help? (considering it's the only public network listed on haveno dot com)

< ofrnxmr > he didnt help. The new pushes on aloha repo are broken as well

< plowsof > public opinion will not believe such an excuse if one was even made

< ofrnxmr > Broken even worse, as the merge commit prevents them from rebasing now

< m​alori:xavi.lu > pretty cool!

< ofrnxmr > Anyway, i don't like that were 2 weeks post-vote and still giving bad actors time to hire fiverr devs to finish the job so he can collect more funds to attack the ecosystem with

< plowsof > so you would support the reviews performed on source/repo's frozen at a given commit hash dated some time ago?

< plowsof > which is common practice for any reviews

< ofrnxmr > He deleted the repo, but i have a copy

< plowsof > the CCS has scammed him, word on the grapevine is work has ceased. hopefully kewbit can confirm

< ofrnxmr > But no, i wouldnt support any further dealings with him. Would i support a review of the code? Sure. But not continuing his proposal(s)

< ofrnxmr > He scammed the ccs and blatantly tried to scam it right before the meeting. He pushed a different codebase AFTER we voted against him

< ofrnxmr > https://librejo.monerodevs.org/nahuhh/haveno-app/compare/manymen...main

< ofrnxmr > Can see the diffs here between what he tried to get paid for vs what he pushed after we rejected

< ofrnxmr > Thanks for the extra 20mins

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > you welcome

< s​yntheticbird:monero.social > always a pleasure to give time to people

< plowsof > I am still considering all options before i make a decisive decision for research-milestone-gate https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/528#note_27774

< plowsof > i've phone a friend. used 50/50. i could ask the audience

< plowsof > thank you for all attending the cosy meeting

Automated by this