diff --git a/docpages/example_code/collect_reactions.cpp b/docpages/example_code/collect_reactions.cpp
index 4d796643cf..abc009f7c4 100644
--- a/docpages/example_code/collect_reactions.cpp
+++ b/docpages/example_code/collect_reactions.cpp
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@ class react_collector : public dpp::reaction_collector {
 	/* Override the "completed" event and then output the number of collected reactions as a message. */
 	virtual void completed(const std::vector<dpp::collected_reaction>& list) override {
 		if (list.size()) {
-			owner->message_create(dpp::message(list[0].react_channel->id, "I collected " + std::to_string(list.size()) + " reactions!"));
+			owner->message_create(dpp::message(list[0].react_channel.id, "I collected " + std::to_string(list.size()) + " reactions!"));
 		} else {
 			owner->message_create(dpp::message("... I got nothin'."));
 		}
diff --git a/include/dpp/collector.h b/include/dpp/collector.h
index 7d25c1e659..715a64059f 100644
--- a/include/dpp/collector.h
+++ b/include/dpp/collector.h
@@ -166,27 +166,27 @@ class collected_reaction : public managed {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Reacting user.
 	 */
-	user react_user;
+	user react_user{};
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Reacting guild.
 	 */
-	guild* react_guild{};
+	guild react_guild{};
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Reacting guild member.
 	 */
-	guild_member react_member;
+	guild_member react_member{};
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Reacting channel.
 	 */
-	channel* react_channel{};
+	channel react_channel{};
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Reacted emoji.
 	 */
-	emoji react_emoji;
+	emoji react_emoji{};
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Optional: ID of the user who authored the message which was reacted to.
@@ -351,7 +351,7 @@ class channel_collector : public channel_collector_t {
 	 * @param element element to filter
 	 * @return Returned item to add to the list, or nullptr to skip adding this element
 	 */
-	virtual const dpp::channel* filter(const dpp::channel_create_t& element) { return element.created; }
+	virtual const dpp::channel* filter(const dpp::channel_create_t& element) { return &element.created; }
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Destroy the channel collector object
@@ -425,7 +425,7 @@ class role_collector : public role_collector_t {
 	 * @param element element to filter
 	 * @return Returned item to add to the list, or nullptr to skip adding this element
 	 */
-	virtual const dpp::role* filter(const dpp::guild_role_create_t& element) { return element.created; }
+	virtual const dpp::role* filter(const dpp::guild_role_create_t& element) { return &element.created; }
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Destroy the role collector object
diff --git a/include/dpp/dispatcher.h b/include/dpp/dispatcher.h
index dad53f509c..ab97c8313b 100644
--- a/include/dpp/dispatcher.h
+++ b/include/dpp/dispatcher.h
@@ -903,7 +903,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_stickers_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Updating guild
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief stickers being updated
@@ -939,7 +939,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT channel_delete_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild channel is being deleted from
 	 */
-	guild* deleting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild deleting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel being deleted
@@ -957,12 +957,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT channel_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild channel is being updated on
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel being updated
 	 */
-	channel* updated = nullptr;
+	channel updated;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1028,7 +1028,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_member_remove_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild user is being removed from
 	 */
-	guild* removing_guild = nullptr;
+	guild removing_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Guild ID removed from
@@ -1069,12 +1069,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_role_create_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild role is being created on
 	 */
-	guild* creating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild creating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief role being created
 	 */
-	role* created = nullptr;
+	role created;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1087,18 +1087,18 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT typing_start_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild user is typing on
 	 */
-	guild* typing_guild = nullptr;
+	guild typing_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel user is typing on
 	 */
-	channel* typing_channel = nullptr;
+	channel typing_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief user who is typing.
 	 * Can be nullptr if user is not cached
 	 */
-	user* typing_user = nullptr;
+	user typing_user;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief User id of user typing.
@@ -1141,7 +1141,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_add_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Guild reaction occurred on
 	 */
-	guild* reacting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild reacting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief User who reacted
@@ -1162,7 +1162,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_add_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	 * @brief channel the reaction happened on (Optional)
 	 * @note only filled when the channel is cached
 	 */
-	channel* reacting_channel = nullptr;
+	channel reacting_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief emoji of reaction
@@ -1190,12 +1190,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_members_chunk_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild the members chunk is for
 	 */
-	guild* adding = nullptr;
+	guild adding;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief list of members in the chunk
 	 */
-	guild_member_map* members = nullptr;
+	guild_member_map members;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1208,7 +1208,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Guild reaction occurred on
 	 */
-	guild* reacting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild reacting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief User who reacted
@@ -1224,7 +1224,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	 * @brief channel the reaction happened on (optional)
 	 * @note only filled when the channel is cached
 	 */
-	channel* reacting_channel = nullptr;
+	channel reacting_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief emoji of reaction
@@ -1247,7 +1247,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_create_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild that was created
 	 */
-	guild* created = nullptr;
+	guild created;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief List of presences of all users on the guild.
@@ -1288,12 +1288,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT channel_create_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild channel was created on
 	 */
-	guild* creating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild creating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel that was created
 	 */
-	channel* created = nullptr;
+	channel created;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1306,7 +1306,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_emoji_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Guild reaction occurred on
 	 */
-	guild* reacting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild reacting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Channel ID the reactions was removed in
@@ -1317,7 +1317,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_emoji_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	 * @brief channel the reaction happened on (optional)
 	 * @note only filled when the channel is cached
 	 */
-	channel* reacting_channel = nullptr;
+	channel reacting_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief emoji of reaction
@@ -1340,17 +1340,17 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_delete_bulk_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild messages are being deleted upon
 	 */
-	guild* deleting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild deleting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief user who is deleting the messages
 	 */
-	user* deleting_user = nullptr;
+	user deleting_user;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel messages are being deleted from
 	 */
-	channel* deleting_channel = nullptr;
+	channel deleting_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief list of message ids of deleted messages
@@ -1368,12 +1368,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_role_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where roles are being updated
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief the role being updated
 	 */
-	role* updated = nullptr;
+	role updated;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1386,12 +1386,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_role_delete_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where role is being deleted
 	 */
-	guild* deleting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild deleting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief role being deleted
 	 */
-	role* deleted = nullptr;
+	role deleted;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief ID of the deleted role
@@ -1409,12 +1409,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT channel_pins_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where message is being pinned
 	 */
-	guild* pin_guild = nullptr;
+	guild pin_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel where message is being pinned
 	 */
-	channel* pin_channel = nullptr;
+	channel pin_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief timestamp of pin
@@ -1432,7 +1432,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_all_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief Guild reaction occurred on
 	 */
-	guild* reacting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild reacting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief Channel ID the reactions was removed in
@@ -1443,7 +1443,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT message_reaction_remove_all_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	 * @brief channel the reaction happened on (optional)
 	 * @note only filled when the channel is cached
 	 */
-	channel* reacting_channel = nullptr;
+	channel reacting_channel;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief message id of the message reacted upon
@@ -1490,7 +1490,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_emojis_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where emojis are being updated
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1517,12 +1517,12 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT webhooks_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where webhooks are being updated
 	 */
-	guild* webhook_guild = nullptr;
+	guild webhook_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief channel where webhooks are being updated
 	 */
-	channel* webhook_channel = nullptr;
+	channel webhook_channel;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1535,7 +1535,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_member_add_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild which gained new member
 	 */
-	guild* adding_guild = nullptr;
+	guild adding_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief member which was added
@@ -1566,7 +1566,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild being updated
 	 */
-	guild* updated = nullptr;
+	guild updated;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1579,7 +1579,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_integrations_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where integrations are being updated
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 };
 
 /**
@@ -1592,7 +1592,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_member_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where member is being updated
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief member being updated
@@ -1786,7 +1786,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_ban_add_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where ban was added
 	 */
-	guild* banning_guild = nullptr;
+	guild banning_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief user being banned
@@ -1804,7 +1804,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT guild_ban_remove_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where ban is being removed
 	 */
-	guild* unbanning_guild = nullptr;
+	guild unbanning_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief user being unbanned
@@ -1861,7 +1861,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT thread_create_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where thread was created
 	 */
-	guild* creating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild creating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief thread created
@@ -1879,7 +1879,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT thread_update_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where thread was updated
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief thread updated
@@ -1897,7 +1897,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT thread_delete_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where thread was deleted
 	 */
-	guild* deleting_guild = nullptr;
+	guild deleting_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief thread deleted
@@ -1915,7 +1915,7 @@ struct DPP_EXPORT thread_list_sync_t : public event_dispatch_t {
 	/**
 	 * @brief guild where thread list was synchronised
 	 */
-	guild* updating_guild = nullptr;
+	guild updating_guild;
 
 	/**
 	 * @brief list of threads (channels) synchronised
diff --git a/src/davetest/dave.cpp b/src/davetest/dave.cpp
index 83ebc5e78f..c6a6857efb 100644
--- a/src/davetest/dave.cpp
+++ b/src/davetest/dave.cpp
@@ -78,8 +78,8 @@ int main() {
 
 
 	dave_test.on_guild_create([&](const dpp::guild_create_t & event) {
-		if (event.created->id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
-			dpp::discord_client* s = dave_test.get_shard(0);
+		if (event.created.id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
+			dpp::discord_client* s = event.from();
 			bool muted = false, deaf = false, enable_dave = true;
 			s->connect_voice(TEST_GUILD_ID, TEST_VC_ID, muted, deaf, enable_dave);
 		}
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/channel_create.cpp b/src/dpp/events/channel_create.cpp
index ae6bc3d1b0..7c4a977db0 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/channel_create.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/channel_create.cpp
@@ -39,11 +39,16 @@ void channel_create::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &
 	dpp::channel newchannel;
 	dpp::channel* c = nullptr;
 	dpp::guild* g = nullptr;
-	
+	dpp::guild tmp_guild;
+
 	if (client->creator->cache_policy.channel_policy == cp_none) {
 		newchannel.fill_from_json(&d);
 		c = &newchannel;
 		g = dpp::find_guild(c->guild_id);
+		if (g == nullptr) {
+			g = &tmp_guild;
+			tmp_guild.id = c->guild_id;
+		}
 		if (c->recipients.size()) {
 			for (auto & u : c->recipients) {
 				client->creator->set_dm_channel(u, c->id);
@@ -68,8 +73,8 @@ void channel_create::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &
 	}
 	if (!client->creator->on_channel_create.empty()) {
 		dpp::channel_create_t cc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		cc.created = c;
-		cc.creating_guild = g;
+		cc.created = *c;
+		cc.creating_guild = *g;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, cc]() {
 			c->on_channel_create.call(cc);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/channel_delete.cpp b/src/dpp/events/channel_delete.cpp
index 84898b2eb0..9cf8cb0feb 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/channel_delete.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/channel_delete.cpp
@@ -50,7 +50,8 @@ void channel_delete::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &
 	if (!client->creator->on_channel_delete.empty()) {
 		channel_delete_t cd(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
 		cd.deleted = c;
-		cd.deleting_guild = g;
+		cd.deleting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		cd.deleting_guild.id = c.guild_id;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, cd]() {
 			c->on_channel_delete.call(cd);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/channel_pins_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/channel_pins_update.cpp
index e3fe01cb57..23ae1f7b93 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/channel_pins_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/channel_pins_update.cpp
@@ -39,10 +39,20 @@ void channel_pins_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 
 	if (!client->creator->on_channel_pins_update.empty()) {
 		json& d = j["d"];
-		dpp::channel_pins_update_t cpu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		cpu.pin_channel = dpp::find_channel(snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id"));
-		cpu.pin_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
+		channel_pins_update_t cpu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+
+		cpu.pin_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		cpu.pin_channel.id = channel_id;
+
+		cpu.pin_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		cpu.pin_guild.id = guild_id;
+
 		cpu.timestamp = ts_not_null(&d, "last_pin_timestamp");
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(0, [c = client->creator, cpu]() {
 			c->on_channel_pins_update.call(cpu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/channel_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/channel_update.cpp
index 5d7a9d8276..e539946d31 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/channel_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/channel_update.cpp
@@ -50,9 +50,13 @@ void channel_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &
 		}
 	}
 	if (!client->creator->on_channel_update.empty()) {
-		dpp::channel_update_t cu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		cu.updated = c;
-		cu.updating_guild = dpp::find_guild(c->guild_id);
+		channel_update_t cu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+		guild* g = find_guild(c->guild_id);
+
+		cu.updated = *c;
+		cu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		cu.updating_guild.id = c->guild_id;
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, cu]() {
 			c->on_channel_update.call(cu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_add.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_add.cpp
index cbec907aca..759aaf26ee 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_add.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_add.cpp
@@ -42,7 +42,14 @@ void guild_ban_add::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &r
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_ban_add.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
 		dpp::guild_ban_add_t gba(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gba.banning_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
+		snowflake gid = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		guild* t = dpp::find_guild(gid);
+		if (t == nullptr) {
+			gba.banning_guild = {};
+			gba.banning_guild.id = gid;
+		} else {
+			gba.banning_guild = *t;
+		}
 		gba.banned = dpp::user().fill_from_json(&(d["user"]));
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gba]() {
 			c->on_guild_ban_add.call(gba);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_remove.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_remove.cpp
index f8b5b451c2..c94c31b86f 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_remove.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_ban_remove.cpp
@@ -42,8 +42,14 @@ void guild_ban_remove::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_ban_remove.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
 		dpp::guild_ban_remove_t gbr(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gbr.unbanning_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+
+		gbr.unbanning_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		gbr.unbanning_guild.id = guild_id;
+
 		gbr.unbanned = dpp::user().fill_from_json(&(d["user"]));
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gbr]() {
 			c->on_guild_ban_remove.call(gbr);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_create.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_create.cpp
index e80746a899..304ce99082 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_create.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_create.cpp
@@ -148,7 +148,7 @@ void guild_create::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &ra
 
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_create.empty()) {
 		dpp::guild_create_t gc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gc.created = g;
+		gc.created = *g;
 
 		/* Fill presences if there are any */
 		if (d.find("presences") != d.end()) {
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_emojis_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_emojis_update.cpp
index 5ba2895bdc..012e160e65 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_emojis_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_emojis_update.cpp
@@ -73,7 +73,8 @@ void guild_emojis_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_emojis_update.empty()) {
 		dpp::guild_emojis_update_t geu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
 		geu.emojis = emojis;
-		geu.updating_guild = g;
+		geu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		geu.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, geu]() {
 			c->on_guild_emojis_update.call(geu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_integrations_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_integrations_update.cpp
index 45c187fbd2..4344b39e00 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_integrations_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_integrations_update.cpp
@@ -40,7 +40,10 @@ void guild_integrations_update::handle(class discord_client* client, json &j, co
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_integrations_update.empty()) {
 		json& d = j["d"];
 		dpp::guild_integrations_update_t giu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		giu.updating_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
+		snowflake gid = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		guild* g = dpp::find_guild(gid);
+		giu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		giu.updating_guild.id = gid;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, giu]() {
 			c->on_guild_integrations_update.call(giu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_add.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_add.cpp
index bb2e0b9c2d..71e5862bfb 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_add.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_add.cpp
@@ -46,7 +46,8 @@ void guild_member_add::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string
 		gm.fill_from_json(&d, guild_id, snowflake_not_null(&(d["user"]), "id"));
 		gmr.added = gm;
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_member_add.empty()) {
-			gmr.adding_guild = g;
+			gmr.adding_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			gmr.adding_guild.id = guild_id;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gmr]() {
 				c->on_guild_member_add.call(gmr);
 			});
@@ -70,7 +71,8 @@ void guild_member_add::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string
 			gmr.added = g->members.find(u->id)->second;
 		}
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_member_add.empty()) {
-			gmr.adding_guild = g;
+			gmr.adding_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			gmr.adding_guild.id = guild_id;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gmr]() {
 				c->on_guild_member_add.call(gmr);
 			});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_remove.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_remove.cpp
index 2d20d547d9..ce01f9ecc4 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_remove.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_remove.cpp
@@ -42,7 +42,9 @@ void guild_member_remove::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 	dpp::guild_member_remove_t gmr(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
 	gmr.removed.fill_from_json(&(d["user"]));
 	gmr.guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
-	gmr.removing_guild = dpp::find_guild(gmr.guild_id);
+	guild* g = dpp::find_guild(gmr.guild_id);
+	gmr.removing_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+	gmr.removing_guild.id = gmr.guild_id;
 
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_member_remove.empty()) {
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gmr]() {
@@ -50,9 +52,10 @@ void guild_member_remove::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 		});
 	}
 
-	if (client->creator->cache_policy.user_policy != dpp::cp_none && gmr.removing_guild) {
-		auto i = gmr.removing_guild->members.find(gmr.removed.id);
-		if (i != gmr.removing_guild->members.end()) {
+	/* NOTE: This operates on the cached pointer of the guild */
+	if (client->creator->cache_policy.user_policy != dpp::cp_none && g) {
+		auto i = g->members.find(gmr.removed.id);
+		if (i != g->members.end()) {
 			dpp::user* u = dpp::find_user(gmr.removed.id);
 			if (u) {
 				u->refcount--;
@@ -60,7 +63,7 @@ void guild_member_remove::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 					dpp::get_user_cache()->remove(u);
 				}
 			}
-			gmr.removing_guild->members.erase(i);
+			g->members.erase(i);
 		}
 	}
 }
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_update.cpp
index 92e007ccdc..6f6a11228a 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_member_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_member_update.cpp
@@ -41,7 +41,8 @@ void guild_member_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 		dpp::user u;
 		u.fill_from_json(&(d["user"]));
 		dpp::guild_member_update_t gmu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gmu.updating_guild = g;
+		gmu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		gmu.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_member_update.empty()) {
 			guild_member m;
 			auto& user = d; // d contains roles and other member stuff already
@@ -63,7 +64,8 @@ void guild_member_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 
 			if (!client->creator->on_guild_member_update.empty()) {
 				dpp::guild_member_update_t gmu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-				gmu.updating_guild = g;
+				gmu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+				gmu.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
 				gmu.updated = m;
 				client->creator->queue_work(0, [c = client->creator, gmu]() {
 					c->on_guild_member_update.call(gmu);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_members_chunk.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_members_chunk.cpp
index 6c589efc0b..14512437a3 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_members_chunk.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_members_chunk.cpp
@@ -40,7 +40,8 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void guild_members_chunk::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	json &d = j["d"];
 	dpp::guild_member_map um;
-	dpp::guild* g = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
+	snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+	dpp::guild* g = dpp::find_guild(guild_id);
 	if (g) {
 		/* Store guild members */
 		if (client->creator->cache_policy.user_policy == cp_aggressive) {
@@ -65,8 +66,9 @@ void guild_members_chunk::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 	}
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_members_chunk.empty()) {
 		dpp::guild_members_chunk_t gmc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gmc.adding = g;
-		gmc.members = &um;
+		gmc.adding = g ? *g : guild{};
+		gmc.adding.id = guild_id;
+		gmc.members = um;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gmc]() {
 			c->on_guild_members_chunk.call(gmc);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_create.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_create.cpp
index 591f6bc1be..c8917adc40 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_create.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_create.cpp
@@ -47,8 +47,9 @@ void guild_role_create::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 		r.fill_from_json(guild_id, &role);
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_create.empty()) {
 			dpp::guild_role_create_t grc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-			grc.creating_guild = g;
-			grc.created = &r;
+			grc.creating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			grc.creating_guild.id = guild_id;
+			grc.created = r;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, grc]() {
 				c->on_guild_role_create.call(grc);
 			});
@@ -66,8 +67,9 @@ void guild_role_create::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 		}
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_create.empty()) {
 			dpp::guild_role_create_t grc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-			grc.creating_guild = g;
-			grc.created = r;
+			grc.creating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			grc.creating_guild.id = guild_id;
+			grc.created = *r;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, grc]() {
 				c->on_guild_role_create.call(grc);
 			});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_delete.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_delete.cpp
index df01744096..1fe9ba39fc 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_delete.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_delete.cpp
@@ -45,9 +45,11 @@ void guild_role_delete::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 	if (client->creator->cache_policy.role_policy == dpp::cp_none) {
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_delete.empty()) {
 			dpp::guild_role_delete_t grd(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-			grd.deleting_guild = g;
+			grd.deleting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			grd.deleting_guild.id = guild_id;
+			grd.deleted = role{};
+			grd.deleted.id = role_id;
 			grd.role_id = role_id;
-			grd.deleted = nullptr;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, grd]() {
 				c->on_guild_role_delete.call(grd);
 			});
@@ -56,8 +58,10 @@ void guild_role_delete::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 		dpp::role *r = dpp::find_role(role_id);
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_delete.empty()) {
 			dpp::guild_role_delete_t grd(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-			grd.deleting_guild = g;
-			grd.deleted = r;
+			grd.deleting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			grd.deleting_guild.id = guild_id;
+			grd.deleted = r ? *r : role{};
+			grd.deleted.id = role_id;
 			grd.role_id = role_id;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, grd]() {
 				c->on_guild_role_delete.call(grd);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_update.cpp
index ba819511cf..934a331391 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_role_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_role_update.cpp
@@ -45,8 +45,9 @@ void guild_role_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 		r.fill_from_json(guild_id, &d);
 		if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_update.empty()) {
 			dpp::guild_role_update_t gru(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-			gru.updating_guild = g;
-			gru.updated = &r;
+			gru.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+			gru.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
+			gru.updated = r;
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gru]() {
 				c->on_guild_role_update.call(gru);
 			});
@@ -58,8 +59,10 @@ void guild_role_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::strin
 			r->fill_from_json(g->id, &role);
 			if (!client->creator->on_guild_role_update.empty()) {
 				dpp::guild_role_update_t gru(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-				gru.updating_guild = g;
-				gru.updated = r;
+				gru.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+				gru.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
+				gru.updated = *r;
+				gru.updated.id = r->id;
 				client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gru]() {
 					c->on_guild_role_update.call(gru);
 				});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_stickers_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_stickers_update.cpp
index c0c8773755..a3764a10be 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_stickers_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_stickers_update.cpp
@@ -48,7 +48,8 @@ void guild_stickers_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::s
 			s.fill_from_json(&sticker);
 			gsu.stickers.emplace_back(s);
 		}
-		gsu.updating_guild = g;
+		gsu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		gsu.updating_guild.id = guild_id;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gsu]() {
 			c->on_guild_stickers_update.call(gsu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/guild_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/guild_update.cpp
index 75dbabec1b..4d0e60b505 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/guild_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/guild_update.cpp
@@ -39,12 +39,14 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void guild_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	json& d = j["d"];
 	guild newguild;
-	dpp::guild* g = nullptr;
+	guild* g = nullptr;
+	snowflake guild_id= snowflake_not_null(&d, "id");
+
 	if (client->creator->cache_policy.guild_policy == cp_none) {
 		newguild.fill_from_json(client, &d);
 		g = &newguild;
 	} else {
-		g = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "id"));
+		g = dpp::find_guild(guild_id);
 		if (g) {
 			g->fill_from_json(client, &d);
 			if (!g->is_unavailable()) {
@@ -66,7 +68,8 @@ void guild_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &ra
 	}
 	if (!client->creator->on_guild_update.empty()) {
 		dpp::guild_update_t gu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		gu.updated = g;
+		gu.updated = g ? *g : guild{};
+		gu.updated.id = guild_id;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, gu]() {
 			c->on_guild_update.call(gu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/message_delete_bulk.cpp b/src/dpp/events/message_delete_bulk.cpp
index 4ac923c900..862d06ec75 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/message_delete_bulk.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/message_delete_bulk.cpp
@@ -38,9 +38,22 @@ void message_delete_bulk::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::str
 	if (!client->creator->on_message_delete_bulk.empty()) {
 		json& d = j["d"];
 		dpp::message_delete_bulk_t msg(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		msg.deleting_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
-		msg.deleting_channel = dpp::find_channel(snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id"));
-		msg.deleting_user = dpp::find_user(snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id"));
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		snowflake user_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+		user* u = find_user(user_id);
+
+		msg.deleting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		msg.deleting_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		msg.deleting_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		msg.deleting_channel.id = channel_id;
+
+		msg.deleting_user = u ? *u : user{};
+		msg.deleting_user.id = user_id;
+
 		for (auto& m : d["ids"]) {
 			msg.deleted.push_back(from_string<uint64_t>(m.get<std::string>()));
 		}
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_add.cpp b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_add.cpp
index 392834bf39..88225adc75 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_add.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_add.cpp
@@ -40,15 +40,26 @@ void message_reaction_add::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::st
 	if (!client->creator->on_message_reaction_add.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
 		dpp::message_reaction_add_t mra(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		dpp::snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
-		mra.reacting_guild = dpp::find_guild(guild_id);
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+
+		mra.reacting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		mra.reacting_guild.id = guild_id;
+
 		mra.reacting_user = dpp::user().fill_from_json(&(d["member"]["user"]));
 		mra.reacting_member = dpp::guild_member().fill_from_json(&(d["member"]), guild_id, mra.reacting_user.id);
-		mra.channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
-		mra.reacting_channel = dpp::find_channel(mra.channel_id);
+
+		mra.channel_id = channel_id;
+		mra.reacting_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		mra.reacting_channel.id = channel_id;
+
 		mra.message_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_id");
 		mra.message_author_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_author_id");
 		mra.reacting_emoji = dpp::emoji().fill_from_json(&(d["emoji"]));
+
 		if (mra.channel_id && mra.message_id) {
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, mra]() {
 				c->on_message_reaction_add.call(mra);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove.cpp b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove.cpp
index 25ffa9c852..9e4ca08e58 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove.cpp
@@ -39,14 +39,29 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void message_reaction_remove::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	if (!client->creator->on_message_reaction_remove.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
-		dpp::message_reaction_remove_t mrr(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		dpp::snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
-		mrr.reacting_guild = dpp::find_guild(guild_id);
-		mrr.reacting_user_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id");
-		mrr.channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
-		mrr.reacting_channel = dpp::find_channel(mrr.channel_id);
-		mrr.message_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_id");
+
+		message_reaction_remove_t mrr(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake user_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		snowflake message_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_id");
+
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = dpp::find_channel(mrr.channel_id);
+
+		mrr.reacting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		mrr.reacting_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		mrr.reacting_user_id = user_id;
+
+		mrr.channel_id = channel_id;
+		mrr.reacting_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		mrr.reacting_channel.id = channel_id;
+
+		mrr.message_id = message_id;
 		mrr.reacting_emoji = dpp::emoji().fill_from_json(&(d["emoji"]));
+
 		if (mrr.channel_id && mrr.message_id) {
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, mrr]() {
 				c->on_message_reaction_remove.call(mrr);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_all.cpp b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_all.cpp
index dca6cce8d5..cc373a9229 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_all.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_all.cpp
@@ -39,11 +39,23 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void message_reaction_remove_all::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	if (!client->creator->on_message_reaction_remove_all.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
-		dpp::message_reaction_remove_all_t mrra(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		mrra.reacting_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
-		mrra.channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
-		mrra.reacting_channel = dpp::find_channel(mrra.channel_id);
+		message_reaction_remove_all_t mrra(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+
+		mrra.reacting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		mrra.reacting_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		mrra.channel_id = channel_id;
+		mrra.reacting_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		mrra.reacting_channel.id = channel_id;
+
 		mrra.message_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_id");
+
 		if (mrra.channel_id && mrra.message_id) {
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, mrra]() {
 				c->on_message_reaction_remove_all.call(mrra);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_emoji.cpp b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_emoji.cpp
index ceebccfaac..5d76177554 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_emoji.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/message_reaction_remove_emoji.cpp
@@ -40,11 +40,22 @@ void message_reaction_remove_emoji::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, cons
 	if (!client->creator->on_message_reaction_remove_emoji.empty()) {
 		json &d = j["d"];
 		dpp::message_reaction_remove_emoji_t mrre(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		mrre.reacting_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
-		mrre.channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
-		mrre.reacting_channel = dpp::find_channel(mrre.channel_id);
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+
+		mrre.reacting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		mrre.reacting_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		mrre.channel_id = channel_id;
+		mrre.reacting_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		mrre.reacting_channel.id = channel_id;
+
 		mrre.message_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "message_id");
+
 		mrre.reacting_emoji = dpp::emoji().fill_from_json(&(d["emoji"]));
+
 		if (mrre.channel_id && mrre.message_id) {
 			client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, mrre]() {
 				c->on_message_reaction_remove_emoji.call(mrre);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/thread_create.cpp b/src/dpp/events/thread_create.cpp
index 7049ad6e52..ee9be86276 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/thread_create.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/thread_create.cpp
@@ -40,8 +40,11 @@ void thread_create::handle(discord_client* client, json& j, const std::string& r
 	}
 	if (!client->creator->on_thread_create.empty()) {
 		dpp::thread_create_t tc(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+
 		tc.created = t;
-		tc.creating_guild = g;
+		tc.creating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		tc.creating_guild.id = t.guild_id;
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, tc]() {
 			c->on_thread_create.call(tc);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/thread_delete.cpp b/src/dpp/events/thread_delete.cpp
index ad4512e2e3..11274d6148 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/thread_delete.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/thread_delete.cpp
@@ -41,7 +41,8 @@ void thread_delete::handle(discord_client* client, json& j, const std::string& r
 	if (!client->creator->on_thread_delete.empty()) {
 		dpp::thread_delete_t td(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
 		td.deleted = t;
-		td.deleting_guild = g;
+		td.deleting_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		td.deleting_guild.id = t.guild_id;
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, td]() {
 			c->on_thread_delete.call(td);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/thread_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/thread_update.cpp
index 9600ef36f5..3680472c64 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/thread_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/thread_update.cpp
@@ -36,8 +36,11 @@ void thread_update::handle(discord_client* client, json& j, const std::string& r
 	dpp::guild* g = dpp::find_guild(t.guild_id);
 	if (!client->creator->on_thread_update.empty()) {
 		dpp::thread_update_t tu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
+
 		tu.updated = t;
-		tu.updating_guild = g;
+		tu.updating_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		tu.updating_guild.id = t.guild_id;
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, tu]() {
 			c->on_thread_update.call(tu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/typing_start.cpp b/src/dpp/events/typing_start.cpp
index bab90053ce..0455294d7f 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/typing_start.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/typing_start.cpp
@@ -37,11 +37,24 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void typing_start::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	if (!client->creator->on_typing_start.empty()) {
 		json& d = j["d"];
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		snowflake user_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+		user* u = find_user(user_id);
+
 		dpp::typing_start_t ts(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		ts.typing_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
-		ts.typing_channel = dpp::find_channel(snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id"));
-		ts.user_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "user_id");
-		ts.typing_user = dpp::find_user(ts.user_id);
+		ts.typing_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		ts.typing_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		ts.typing_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		ts.typing_channel.id = channel_id;
+
+		ts.user_id = user_id;
+		ts.typing_user = u ? *u : user{};
+		ts.typing_user.id = user_id;
+
 		ts.timestamp = ts_not_null(&d, "timestamp");
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, ts]() {
 			c->on_typing_start.call(ts);
diff --git a/src/dpp/events/webhooks_update.cpp b/src/dpp/events/webhooks_update.cpp
index 1750cdb2fd..70dc302a00 100644
--- a/src/dpp/events/webhooks_update.cpp
+++ b/src/dpp/events/webhooks_update.cpp
@@ -38,9 +38,20 @@ namespace dpp::events {
 void webhooks_update::handle(discord_client* client, json &j, const std::string &raw) {
 	if (!client->creator->on_webhooks_update.empty()) {
 		json& d = j["d"];
+
+		snowflake guild_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id");
+		snowflake channel_id = snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id");
+		guild* g = find_guild(guild_id);
+		channel* c = find_channel(channel_id);
+
 		dpp::webhooks_update_t wu(client->owner, client->shard_id, raw);
-		wu.webhook_guild = dpp::find_guild(snowflake_not_null(&d, "guild_id"));
-		wu.webhook_channel = dpp::find_channel(snowflake_not_null(&d, "channel_id"));
+
+		wu.webhook_guild = g ? *g : guild{};
+		wu.webhook_guild.id = guild_id;
+
+		wu.webhook_channel = c ? *c : channel{};
+		wu.webhook_channel.id = channel_id;
+
 		client->creator->queue_work(1, [c = client->creator, wu]() {
 			c->on_webhooks_update.call(wu);
 		});
diff --git a/src/unittest/test.cpp b/src/unittest/test.cpp
index 9837d934fa..c804ff91a7 100644
--- a/src/unittest/test.cpp
+++ b/src/unittest/test.cpp
@@ -988,30 +988,30 @@ Markdown lol \\|\\|spoiler\\|\\| \\~\\~strikethrough\\~\\~ \\`small \\*code\\* b
 		});
 
 		bot.on_guild_create([dpp_logo,&bot](const dpp::guild_create_t& event) {
-			dpp::guild *g = event.created;
+			dpp::guild g = event.created;
 
-			if (g->id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
+			if (g.id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
 				start_test(GUILD_EDIT);
-				g->set_icon(dpp::i_png, dpp_logo.data(), static_cast<uint32_t>(dpp_logo.size()));
-				bot.guild_edit(*g, [&bot](const dpp::confirmation_callback_t &result) {
+				g.set_icon(dpp::i_png, dpp_logo.data(), static_cast<uint32_t>(dpp_logo.size()));
+				bot.guild_edit(g, [&bot](const dpp::confirmation_callback_t &result) {
 					if (result.is_error()) {
 						set_status(GUILD_EDIT, ts_failed, "guild_edit 1 errored:\n" + result.get_error().human_readable);
 						return;
 					}
-					dpp::guild g = result.get<dpp::guild>();
+					dpp::guild g2 = result.get<dpp::guild>();
 
-					if (g.get_icon_url().empty()) {
+					if (g2.get_icon_url().empty()) {
 						set_status(GUILD_EDIT, ts_failed, "icon not set or not retrieved");
 						return;
 					}
-					g.remove_icon();
-					bot.guild_edit(g, [](const dpp::confirmation_callback_t &result) {
+					g2.remove_icon();
+					bot.guild_edit(g2, [](const dpp::confirmation_callback_t &result) {
 						if (result.is_error()) {
 							set_status(GUILD_EDIT, ts_failed, "guild_edit 2 errored:\n" + result.get_error().human_readable);
 							return;
 						}
-						const dpp::guild &g = result.get<dpp::guild>();
-						if (!g.get_icon_url().empty()) {
+						const dpp::guild g3 = result.get<dpp::guild>();
+						if (!g3.get_icon_url().empty()) {
 							set_status(GUILD_EDIT, ts_failed, "icon not removed");
 							return;
 						}
@@ -1136,7 +1136,7 @@ Markdown lol \\|\\|spoiler\\|\\| \\~\\~strikethrough\\~\\~ \\`small \\*code\\* b
 		});
 
 		bot.on_guild_create([&bot](const dpp::guild_create_t & event) {
-			if (event.created->id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
+			if (event.created.id == TEST_GUILD_ID) {
 				set_test(GUILDCREATE, true);
 				if (event.presences.size() && event.presences.begin()->second.user_id > 0) {
 					set_test(PRESENCE, true);
@@ -1703,7 +1703,7 @@ Markdown lol \\|\\|spoiler\\|\\| \\~\\~strikethrough\\~\\~ \\`small \\*code\\* b
 		});
 
 		bot.on_thread_update([&thread_helper](const dpp::thread_update_t &event) {
-			if (event.updating_guild->id == TEST_GUILD_ID && event.updated.id == thread_helper.thread_id && event.updated.name == "edited") {
+			if (event.updating_guild.id == TEST_GUILD_ID && event.updated.id == thread_helper.thread_id && event.updated.name == "edited") {
 				set_test(THREAD_UPDATE_EVENT, true);
 			}
 		});
@@ -1720,7 +1720,7 @@ Markdown lol \\|\\|spoiler\\|\\| \\~\\~strikethrough\\~\\~ \\`small \\*code\\* b
 		});
 
 		bot.on_thread_delete([&](const dpp::thread_delete_t &event) {
-			if (event.deleting_guild->id == TEST_GUILD_ID && event.deleted.id == message_helper.thread_id) {
+			if (event.deleting_guild.id == TEST_GUILD_ID && event.deleted.id == message_helper.thread_id) {
 				set_test(THREAD_DELETE_EVENT, true);
 			}
 		});