From ac0271c4488bce5a7b5c6901d068a5b7b443cd44 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 14:48:58 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 1/8] Create meeting notes for Sig-documentation #13 (#481) * Create meeting notes for Sig-documentation #13 Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * Update 013-2024-01-23.md add transcript Signed-off-by: Drinkwater * Update 013-2024-01-23.md add recording Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Signed-off-by: Drinkwater Co-authored-by: Drinkwater --- sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md | 410 +++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 410 insertions(+) create mode 100644 sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md diff --git a/sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md b/sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6a5c92d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md @@ -0,0 +1,410 @@ +# Akash Network - Docs Special Interest Group - Meeting #13 + +## Agenda +- Update on Documentation. +- Next steps for documentation. +- Updates on ongoing website revamp. +- Discussion on documentation contributions from community. +- Discussions on Video Documentation. + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Tuesday, January, 23 2024 +- Time: 7:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://ggtsa72sjsvu3yph245qmj6zvpy7uyys7jerkj72heitmyoiv2na.arweave.net/Macgf1JMq03h59c7BifZq_H6YxL6SRUn-jkRNmHIrpo) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Andrey Arapov +- Benjamin B +- Joao Luna +- Mayank Choudhary +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Carruthers +- TG (Thomas Greco ) +- Tyler Wright + +## Meeting Notes +### Tyler Wright +- Tyler Wright welcomes everyone to the first SIG Documentation meeting of 2024, extending New Year wishes to all. +- Discuss current documentation updates and encourage community involvement due to limited capacity within the core team to maintain documentation. +- Emphasis on seeking contributions from community members, insiders, vanguards, etc. +- Proposal to introduce rewards for documentation contributions, considering bounties for specific items. +- Acknowledgment of ongoing changes to the revamped website impacting documentation. +- Encourage community members to contribute new documentation for the revamped website through a dedicated section, ensuring it's back-ported to the current website. +- Assistance available from Tyler for those needing help with documentation suggestions or contributions. +- Shared a [link](https://akash.hooman.digital/) in the chat for the ongoing website revamp. +- Current documentation led by Scott with contributions from the community. +- Updated structure for the sidebar from working group docs 2.0, influenced by Luna. +- Shared link to engineering documentation by Scott Carruthers for in-depth Akash Network understanding. +- Encouraged members to check the revamp website for a preview of the documentation's look and feel. +- Welcomed suggestions for page optimization; encouraged posting in the website revamp or sig documentation Discord Channel. +### Video Content Plans by Thomas Greco +- Thomas Greco shares plans for creating video content, aiming to discuss specific content with Zach and other community members. +- Thomas updates on his video content creation, acknowledging a delay due to documentation finalization concerns raised by Tyler. +- Thomas mentions creating an initial video demonstrating the deployment of a Next.js app, awaiting feedback before proceeding with more content. +- Tyler appreciates Thomas's efforts despite the delay caused by the website revamp, suggests sharing the video in SIG Documentation or Insiders Channel for initial feedback. +- Tyler and Thomas discuss the strategy for finalizing and circulating the videos once completed, acknowledging alignment on the approach with Scott's feedback being beneficial. +- Tyler expresses gratitude for Thomas's efforts and anticipates the positive impact once the videos are finalized + +### Thomas Greco: Migration and Documentation 2.0 Feedback +- Thomas mentioned ongoing rebranding of Cloudmos to Akash Network console. +- Inquired about the completion status of the migration. +- Tyler confirmed the ongoing status, with certain functionalities still in progress. +- Thomas expressed satisfaction with the Documentation 2.0's appearance but plans to review it in detail. +- Offered assistance and a second set of eyes for feedback on flow or any specific areas needing attention. + +### Community Involvement in Documentation +- Tyler emphasized the community effort in updating documentation. +- Encouraged members, including Thomas, to contribute to documentation optimization, copy updates, and more. +- Highlighted the goal of having Scott and Andrey focus on high-level review and merging PRs. +- Scott clarified his role, stating he is more involved in writing and updating documentation rather than restructuring Docs 2.0. +- Advised Thomas to provide structure feedback to Tyler and content-related feedback to himself. +- Suggested using the Discord Sig Documentation Channel for communication. +- Tyler urged participants to consider ways to help with documentation, including editing and identifying gaps. +- Mentioned the plan to create a list of documentation improvement areas and introduce bounties. +- Encouraged community members to contribute suggestions for potential bounties and pricing structures. +- Emphasized the need for setting the tone and initiating the work in defining the pricing structure. + +### Documentation Management and GitHub Process: +- Thomas inquired about the process for content modification and GitHub PRs. +- Tyler explained the absence of an open issues list for Sig Documentation. +- Tyler suggested starting by suggesting items in the Sig Documentation Discord Channel. +- Tyler shared plans to link the repo inside the revamped website for documentation updates via PRs. +- Encouraged updating documentation in the website revamped repo while waiting for the revamp to go live. +- Mentioned the need for documentation on AMD GPU support on the Akash Network. + +### Documentation Updates and New Content: +- Tyler inquired about any new documentation or edits from Scott and Andrey. +- Scott mentioned a community-contributed PR regarding subquery integration for indexing Akash Network attributes. +- Scott identified the need for documentation on GPU provider build, specifically for AMD, as the next significant addition. +- Scott Proposed collaboration with Tyler on splitting the tasks for documentation creation. +- Andrey highlighted the raw format of AMD documentation as comments in GitHub. +- Andrey mentioned existing issues, such as GPU account degradation with mixed GPU vendors, needing resolution before finalizing documentation. +- Discussed potential challenges, including issues with deploying Jupyter containers and locating GPUs for AMD. +- Andrey emphasized the need for a global consensus and addressing outstanding issues before shipping AMD documentation. +- Scott clarified the stance on mixed AMD and Nvidia support on a single Kubernetes worker node, stating it's currently not supported. + +### Hardware recommendations documentation +- There is an existing document with some guidance for hardware recommendations for Akash providers, but it has some problems with the structuring. +- Rodrigo mentioned the importance of updating the experimental build examples section in the documentation. +- Rodrigo acknowledged Shimpa's efforts in revamping the rough draft for Hardware Recommendations, expecting a more finalized version soon. +- The draft will be reviewed by others and then added to the documentation. +- Scott highlighted the community's role in maintaining such documentation over time. +- Suggested that the Providers channel in Discord has become more design-oriented and discussed the idea of separating it into provider design and provider troubleshooting or potentially adding a hardware-specific channel. +- Andrey and Rodrigo agreed with the idea of creating separate channels for hardware-related discussions. +- Tyler supported the idea and proposed discussing it in the Sig Providers meeting. + +### Other matters Discusssed +#### Mixed GPU Vendor Support and AMD Documentation: +- Scott reiterated the current stance of not supporting mixed vendors on a single host, emphasizing the need for clarity in documentation. +- Andrey highlighted considerations for AMD deployments, including the need for additional software and potential challenges in obtaining a "golden image" for AMD. +- Mentioned creating a question in the AMD device plugin repository but awaiting responses. +- Tyler expressed gratitude for Andrey's perspective and suggested discussing these issues during the Engineering sync. +- Tyler emphasized the importance of prioritizing experimental documentation for AMD, allowing the community to provide feedback on the user experience. +- Andrey agreed to proceed with prioritizing documentation for community testing, even if in an experimental state. + +### Closing Remarks +##### Tyler wright +- Thomas committed to creating more videos, with plans to share them in Discord for real-time feedback. +- Tomorrow's Sig Providers meeting will delve into the discussion of creating a provider hardware channel and include a presentation on an open-source auditing tool by Benjamin. +- Continued work on the AMD support documentation with the aim of sharing it with the community for feedback and optimization. +- Ongoing community involvement encouraged for reviewing current documentation, providing feedback, and contributing to the evolving structure and content. +- The mention of Shimpa sharing documentation on builds with Scott, indicating imminent updates. +- Tyler expressed appreciation for everyone's time and contributions. +- Encouraged inviting others interested in documentation to join meetings and Discord discussions. + +## Action Items +- Thomas to share video content in Sig Documentation or Insiders Channel for feedback. +- Tyler to gather feedback on the ongoing migration status bt cloudmos and provide updates in future meetings +- Tyler to share the repository link for documentation updates in the Sig Documentation Channel. +- Documentation on AMD GPU support on the Akash Network to be added to the website revamped repo. +- Scott and Andrey to address outstanding issues with GPU provider documentation and seek consensus before finalizing. +- Further discussion on AMD GPU support and documentation in the engineering sync. +- Shimpa to provide a more finalized version of the Hardware Recommendations documentation. +- Discussion on channel separation to be brought up in the Sig Providers meeting + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody to Sig documentation. This is the first state documentation meeting of 2024. So again, Happy New Year to everybody. During the Sig documentation monthly meetings. The group comes together to discuss all current documentation folks talk about documentation Updates. This is a Sig where we're looking for more contributions from members of our core team have limited capacity to continue to maintain + +Tyler Wright: the documentation amongst a number of other responsibilities. So this is something that we're certainly hoping that the community members of the community insiders vanguards Etc and get more involved we're looking to put rewards around this. So again, anybody wants to contribute to documentation. Feel free to share any ideas in state documentation channel on Discord and we can start creating bounties for certain items. I know right now. We're in the midst of a little bit of limbo around the website with some changes being made to the revamped website right now, which have to effect on documentation because the docks are being moved from network slash documentation or slash doctor rather. + +Tyler Wright: What I would suggest in the meantime and I've already talked to the folks that are managing the website revamp as well as they help to manage the current website as a part of the community. Bounty is have folks contribute if they have any new documentation that needs to go on the website and this goes for community members specifically, I would ask that you put it inside of the website revamp o. There is a specific section for docs and you can follow the instructions on how to access it. And then from there it will be back ported to the current website while we wait. But again, these are things that I can help folks with offline if anybody has any suggestions for documentation that they want to see added subtracted or + +Tyler Wright: 12 meeting of the year the group really went over I guess some of the items that I was talked about today next steps for the documentation again, I'll share a link in the chat for folks right now for the website revamp and the structure and the setup obviously can continue to improve but on that docs page you can see a culmination of the current documentation that again has been led by Scott and now is like getting contributions from other people in the community if an updated structure for the sidebar that came out of working group docs 2.0 that Luna was heavily instrumental in + +Tyler Wright: as well as a link to the engineering documentation, which is an effort that Scott Carruthers had been doing basically by himself to have more in-depth documentation for folks that are looking to build on top of Akash or looking to understand the accost Network at the deeper level. So again on the current revamp website, you can kind of get a look at to what the documentation will look and feel like over time. If anybody has any suggestions on optimization for this page again, feel free to drop those inside the website revamp. You can make an issue or you can start a conversation in safe documentation Discord Channel and You can go from there. + +Tyler Wright: Other than that, I know that Thomas who's on the call here today had some plans to create some video content and talk to Zach and other members of the community about specific content so we can talk about that. I know that we also had to have as an agenda item, but usually talk about any new documentation that may have been added in the past couple weeks. I know that again we've been in kind of a holding pattern the past couple weeks, but usually that's something that gets covered during these monthly meeting calls. And then again, we can open it up to the floor if anybody had anything else that they want to specifically discuss that hasn't been discussed related to documentation. + +00:05:00 + +Tyler Wright: cool What? + +Thomas Greco: Yet and I'd love to chime in regarding. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, absolutely. + +Thomas Greco: Yeah. Happy New Year. first and foremost everybody glad to be back. + +Thomas Greco: So yeah, we can lift off. It was a little bit of a guy they can in between state with the documentation. + +Thomas Greco: You just kind of means that exact and I were. Trying to figure out a plan. + +Thomas Greco: For it's using my time. wisely and specifically + +Thomas Greco: That meant not filming any. Videos of me going to the documentation until it was all finalized. tie you and I spoke kind of on the side and you expressed just a need for videos in video content + +Thomas Greco: and so is a fair share that still and ask + +Tyler Wright: Yes. + +Thomas Greco: alright, so I've been kind of tied up with other projects. It's and the beginning of this year. But as I mentioned on the Thursday's call. I spent together. + +Thomas Greco: an initial video showing deploying and xjs app just like the basic, Bare Bones like baby step video + +Thomas Greco: and some happy to share that I was really kind of waiting to get feedback too from people on my initial video in the format of the videos, but it seems as though no news is good news, and I'm just gonna go forward with it. + +Thomas Greco: Yeah, so yeah in terms of video content. I think over these next few days. I will. + +Thomas Greco: You'll be kind of getting. Some videos from me. + +Thomas Greco: Showing the Akash console. He's deployments. Going to that process. I won't be showing the docs specifically I'll be waiting until the docs are done. to show them and so yeah, let me know. That sounds good. + +Tyler Wright: Beautiful for me. That sounds great. I know that the process has been slowed a little bit by this website revamp being in a little bit of delayed in the launch, especially because there's a couple of critical elements in terms of endings and just the back end structure of it so apologies, but I know that the working group for a cash website and Sig designer working hard to figure that But in the meantime Thomas, yeah, I think some content would be great. I know that Scott gave feedback on their original video maybe a little bit about Pace. I'm sure other people gave you a little bit of feedback as well. But I think you should continue moving forward as you have and maybe drop a video in sync documentation or maybe even insiders Channel as well to get some initial feedback and… + +Thomas Greco: Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: that might be a great place to start and then once it's finalized then I'm + +Tyler Wright: exact will have a strategy on where we can put it and how we can circulate it a wider if we just create some blog around it in the meantime or what the case may do. So I really appreciate those efforts and I think they'll go a long way once they're finalized. + +Thomas Greco: Yeah, no problem and yet wearing Scott's feedback that those. Really useful, so thanks again for that. + +Thomas Greco: It's clear that we're definitely the same page for kind of. what? We think the best. Approach to these really are so yeah. I'm excited for that. + +Thomas Greco: I do have another migration that's happening has been from cloud most to that Akash Network or Not sure if I get the ordering on there like cash console that Network. But is that right? + +00:10:00 + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. + +Thomas Greco: Is that migration done? + +Thomas Greco: but + +Tyler Wright: No, that migration is ongoing so I believe there is. network where you can deploy the Akash console beta which is cloud most back-end. but it does not have the full functionality of cloud most and… + +Thomas Greco: but + +Tyler Wright: I believe that is still ongoing. There's an item that's in the road map. + +Tyler Wright: But yeah, the max are so working on that so you won't get the full functionality of the cloud most app. + +Thomas Greco: I + +Tyler Wright: At console, but you'll get a lot of it and they'll get The Branding element. + +Thomas Greco: okay, go so it's cool to use that and all right awesome and… + +Tyler Wright: Yes. + +Thomas Greco: then the last thing I mentioned was that. But the documentation 2.0. I think it looks really great. + +Thomas Greco: I haven't really got the sift through it in detail. And so that's definitely something I put on my list of things to do, but I just Area if you need the second set of eyeballs on anything. or would just like me to check out the flow of things. whatever area might need assistance don't hesitate to reach out because yeah, I know that can go a long way. + +Tyler Wright: I don't think I'll speak for Scott and Scott can feel free to chime in but one of the hopes of this sig documentation is to get more folks like yourselves that are interested in contributing to documentation and can so that Scott Andre and other members of the kind of core team. They're working on a number of things like teacher editions, just like new products can focus on that and are basically just reviewing at the highest level some of this stuff. I know that Scott again has spent a great deal of effort as Andre and particular time to optimize specific documentation and think about the flow and participate a number of meetings. But as we move forward the goal is that + +Tyler Wright: Scott and Andre can be at this meeting can give feedback. But in between these meetings as much of it's very much a community effort on updating documentation working together to make sure that the flow is optimized updating any copy if it needs to be updated directly and then all Scott and potentially Andre are doing is just like merging PRS and it's just our Been effort so I apologize if I'm speaking on behalf of you, but just want to put + +Scott Carruthers: I think all that is fair and maybe one additional plane of clarification is I'm not really overly involved and they restructuring of document documentation 2.0. So I'm still definitely very involved and writing new documentation are updating existing documentation, but just based on assignments and focuses. I haven't really been to involved in. the Threshold just restructuring of the docs 2.0. So Thomas I would recommend I guess I would say two things. If you have any feedback on this structure of ducks 2.0. I would probably just feed that to Tyler and then Tyler can. distribute that to the people that are working on those efforts or the necessary parties and then if there was feedback on actual + +Scott Carruthers: Content of documentation if you get into a provider documentation and believe that's something should be clarified, then you can definitely bring that to me. So I'd say structure Tyler and then content you can bring to myself. + +Thomas Greco: Okay, and then I mean, I'll probably just use the diet cig documentation Channel. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, just leave it there and then whoever is assigned or responsible. I'll pick it up from there. So yeah, that's fine. + +Thomas Greco: cool, definitely want to take as much stuff off your guys's Place possible, free Epson bandwidth + +Tyler Wright: Much appreciated and again, especially over the next month or so. I would like participants in this group to start to. Think more about ways that they can help with documentation, whether it's like editing current documentation or gaps whether it be in the sdl. I know Benjamin I talked about that previously gaps that users may be stumbling across that maybe we be able to optimize I would like to start to + +00:15:00 + +Tyler Wright: pray, a list of what those things might be get contributions from folks in the community and have suggestions on a potential Bounty so we can start to put together a board and kind of like a structure that makes sense for everybody of what an edit should cost what a new document should cost so that we can start to figure out next steps in terms of the operational component of Again, incentivizing folks to continue to contribute to documentation. So I'm hoping that folks on this call that are involved right now can really Step Up in setting the tone and doing the work and studying kind of the initial ructure of what a pricing structure might look like. + +Thomas Greco: yeah, okay, that's a good and so just the GitHub just make for content and modification there Edition that process is just like PR is to GitHub Aries. What I'm trying to get at is there a list of open issues or anything? + +Thomas Greco: and githubers project + +Tyler Wright: There's no list of open. + +Tyler Wright: There's no list of open issues right now for the Sig documentation. And in terms of order of operation when I would suggest is start by suggesting items in Sig documentation Discord Channel. And then from there we can start to finalize where items should go. I will link specifically the repo inside of the revamped website where things should be because This will be the place where all documentation will be updated via PR. I'm going to link that to everybody in six documentation after this call with some readme instructions from the website team just on how folks can update documentation and then my suggestion is while we're waiting for the website revamp Continue to update. + +Tyler Wright: A documentation in that website revamped repo and then anything that's really pressing will get back ported manually by a member by either Peterson his team or a member of the core team to the current documentation docs out of network. as an example, and I hate to put some folks on the spot, but I know that Scott and Andre have been extensively testing. AMD support as a GPU type on the Akash Network. I believe that a Next Step would be creating documentation that we can add to the + +Tyler Wright: Docs for folks that are trying to use AMD gpus I'm going to cost Network. We should probably put that on the current website right now because again, I think it will live fairly soon, but we can add it to the website revamp repo and then I'll make sure it gets back towards. + +Thomas Greco: Yeah. Yeah sure That'll be useful which is quite a bit to sift Between overclock too and a cash Network. but specifically + +Tyler Wright: I'll share that repo in. + +Tyler Wright: and sick documentation + +Tyler Wright: real quick. Can we take a brief aside to quickly put a laughing emoji at Rodrigo being a Dallas Cowboys fan. cool + +Thomas Greco: I was actually gonna chime in and say I'm a die-hard Cowboys fan. So I'm gonna have to veto that. + +Thomas Greco: Okay. + +Tyler Wright: There's a number of people we can laugh with prilo this call. + +Thomas Greco: What's up existence? + +Tyler Wright: You want a top existence? Yeah. Cool is anyone. + +Scott Carruthers: Whether it's Sorry for additional side. + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead. + +00:20:00 + +Scott Carruthers: But Broadway is saying that I sound like I'm from Texas. I've never Rotary, that's the first time that anyone has told me that do really do I sound like I'm from, Texas. Because I don't mind that but I've never heard that. + +Rodrigo Rochin: I just moved I think you have a western accent, but I really like it. I dig it. And I figure like you and… + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, no, I'm from you. + +Rodrigo Rochin: your spare time. You probably wear a cowboy hat in boots, or I don't know. Maybe you're from I don't know but + +Scott Carruthers: No, I'm from. + +Rodrigo Rochin: I really like it. + +Scott Carruthers: All yeah, that's no I'm actually from New York. So I don't know where the Western accent is coming from. But yeah, I'm down with it and… + +Thomas Greco: I mean he had time + +Scott Carruthers: And growing up in New York state. ironically I'm a Cowboys fan as well. So I don't know how that happened but sounds like it's all coming together perfectly. + +Tyler Wright: Yes, Exactly. + +Thomas Greco: Yes, got it. + +Andrey Arapov: Maybe from the past life. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah. Yeah. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Yeah, I don't know why I just thought you were Western from I don't remember the states of up, Texas, but somewhere in the south. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, no,… + +Rodrigo Rochin: But very imagined that you were from,… + +Scott Carruthers: that's a yeah, I mean. + +Rodrigo Rochin: New York. + +Scott Carruthers: Yes, I'm not from the city. So yeah, I definitely don't have the Long Island accent. But yeah, I'm from New York state. But yeah, I'll take the Western accent. I've been told before that I sound like I have a computer generated voice and I sound like Darth Vader. So in those options, I'll take a look. + +Tyler Wright: cool All right. + +Tyler Wright: Does anyone have any documentation or I guess specifically Scott and Andre because I know between last meetings you all. I've been working over things and I'll been break. Is there any new documentation or documentation edits, that might be worth sharing with focus on the call that it + +Scott Carruthers: Okay, if I need to come to mind, so we had a request subquery to their doing some indexing of Akash Network attributes or cost network data, so they submitted a PR and I merge that so that's in Integrations now, so that's a document created by the community. It's obviously been a long time since we did our last Sig documentation. So I bet I would assume that there probably were some small documentation edits, but none of any significance really come to mind something. They come to Andy's mind. So yeah, really the subquery document document Edition is really the only thing I can think of and Tyler to your point that certainly then next document of significance that needs to be added is the + +Scott Carruthers: GPU provider build Andy we obviously can Take this offline, but wonder if we want to split that up. If you want to go through based on your build of the AMD provider on circus scale if you wanted to. kind of divide this up if you wanted to take some of the scaffolding of another way it needed to do this on circuit scale, but obviously another + +Scott Carruthers: bare metal machines will have to go through the install of the + +Scott Carruthers: AMD drivers and then also some guidance on Using rock them or rocm. It's me instead of Nvidious me so we could go through all that in a documentation. So yeah, I'll take this opinion on this and even maybe something that we could work on together this week, but maybe you could go through some of the scaffolding of that and then I could take some of the bare bone structure and turn it into documentation for the documentation site. And yeah, I think that's really the only items that come to my mind. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, thanks, but for MD, I think the documentation we kind of have it in a very role format is a form of comments in GitHub that we can copy paste stuff into the official recommendation. But the global thing is that the major issue there is if you can see in the support repo issue number 142 there are there a few things that they like in degradation of the GPU account when you have mixed GPU vendors and medium D on the single host things so yet to be fixed before pushing the recommendation I would say, but I know if people want to have it ship this as fast as possible, even if it's like we'll say in the working way, but + +00:25:00 + +Andrey Arapov: In this specific condition where you have a single per host, then it's fine with me. But other than that, I would prefer rather like to make sure that the provider has this issue fixed first, and there are a couple of more things. Such as when somebody deploys something with the jupyo, if he spawns into the port container, he needs to install specific software to locate the GPU to actually work with it, but + +Andrey Arapov: drivers and stuff like that because these things are getting through the pot by default with a media in immediate review but not with So you need basically to find something to run on AMD and see how painful it will be for the customer because if we ship it this way, then it might be painful for my point of view. Other than that and if everyone is okay with that, I'm fine to ship it this way, but we need to find the global consensus first and only then we should go with the documentation for AMD. Let's try and take + +Scott Carruthers: Yes, I Andy I just to let you know and we can take this up and Engineering sink as well. But we have the once significant issue that you just raised of mixed AMD and video support on a single. Kubernetes worker node. So we talked about that last week and our stances that's not currently supported. So just as we don't currently support end video Gpus,… + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, fine fine. + +Scott Carruthers: I'm just say most yes. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, I remember this conversation. I just want to like to iterate again. Okay. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, yeah, so that and we would obviously very clear. It's called us out in the documentation as well. But yeah, the current stances. We do not support mix vendors on a single host. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah the time and the other thing is that to make sure when you customer creates a deployment in Akash for AMD. He might figure that he needs to install some additional software or just basically get some kind of let's say quote unquote golden image for AMD image Docker image. So it contains all these drivers because there's difference between the plugin the VR is for NVIDIA Whereas in Nvidia device plugin in automatically supports the future and basically mounts over from the host to the pot the directories in the drivers for accessing the immediate GPU and for AMD, you basically need to install specific drivers or have software that already has the driver so to + +Andrey Arapov: so that you are able to basically communicate with the AMD card but generally MD card gets through the container without any problem as a device under a slash dri. So it's all about the usability I would say right now. I've created the question in the issues of the AMD device plugin repository for their developers. And I think I still haven't received any information on that yet. There's a possibility that we also try to look for different kind of plug. And that supports AMD and supports all these things out of the box or in the worst case. We'll have to contribute to In the code, is this extensions and I'm actually not sure how much work would be required there. But I think it's quite extensive so it's for information. + +Tyler Wright: Andy I appreciate that perspective, it's Scott mentioned we can talk about some of the stuff during the engineering sink specific to this issue. I would just say generally if we can prioritize even if it's an experimental State, I know that there's some folks in the community that have AMD gpus and I would just like them to be able to test out General documentation. Even if there's some limitations right now, but I would just like them to test out the process so we can get some Community feedback on some of the things that you're talking about whether it's user experience or onboarding experience or whatever. So if we can be one of documentation for and… + +00:30:00 + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, Sounds good. + +Tyler Wright: David go from there. + +Andrey Arapov: Sounds good. + +Tyler Wright: Excellent life, cool. Thank you Andrey. Is there any other? Specific documentation that anybody is seen or anybody on the inside of the vanguards are part of the community has seen people in the community get hiccup on or stuck on or anything that anybody has any suggestions on improving in terms of documentation. + +Tyler Wright: Go. + +Rodrigo Rochin: So we talked about this in the Bangor Channel or insiders channel, the experimental build examples there in there. chimpa said and recommended there's always gonna be new hardware being released. and I think he said that he would happily edit them. I'm not familiar with the best hardware for built. But I think that section is very helpful. I presented it to some of the people asking about building providers and Discord, too. And let them know that it would be updated. So not sure if she is here who could keep that updated, but I think it would be really helpful for all of us. + +Scott Carruthers: yeah, so ship is not currently here, but he actually shared a rough draft and these are shrimpas words. It was a very rough draft, but I thought a lot of the content in the direction he was going with or were great so + +Scott Carruthers: Yes, so we know that for a while there's been a document and experimental with some guidance for Hardware recommendations for a cost providers. And we thought there was a lot of polls and problems with the structuring so ship but took on revamping that and as all documentation I would think that that would be something that would be maintained by the community over time because that was another issue with the existing document as obviously hard work can become outdated and that kind of documentation could take a lot of love and care over time, but I think that will work very well in the community. So yeah, the update is shambo's written a rough draft for that and I would think that he would have a More finalized version that people like myself and Andy could review and then get into the documentation very soon. So not putting words in champa's mouth. But basically from what I've seen I would think that as plausible we might have that. + +Scott Carruthers: Hardware recommendation documentation up and the next couple weeks. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Thanks Alex there. I didn't know it existed until two or three weeks ago. If I had seen it before I probably would have started building one of those. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah. I'd also say this isn't necessarily documentation related, but has some Association Any I was going to reach out to you for your opinion on this as well. I noticed recently that the providers channel in Discord is mostly full of. Conversations around this very topic like Hardware recommendations and people reaching out to others in the community asking what Hardware they use for their provider build in it seems like the providers channel has become very design oriented instead of troubleshooting oriented. And I think that the danger with that is if someone is looking for a troubleshooting topic and might start to become difficult to find past conversations or their current conversation might get muddied by a lot of design conversations. So Tyler and something that we + +Scott Carruthers: May want to consider going forward as I wonder if we'd be better start by having a provider design and a provider troubleshooting. Channel + +Andrey Arapov: Or we could have a hardware Channel Maybe. Yeah, I think it's a good point. + +Scott Carruthers: yeah, something like that. Yeah. + +Andrey Arapov: You brought up Scotty. Yeah, definitely. I agree. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, okay. + +Tyler Wright: I agree as well we can figure out how to make that happen. And I think we have sick providers tomorrow. So + +00:35:00 + +Tyler Wright: We can either bring that up tomorrow. Just wait a day or we can just make the change now and just talk about it tomorrow. I don't know how people feel on this call. I know some that'll be on this call also being sick providers, but does anyone from the community have any issues about separating those two channels so we can keep Channel specific to again troubleshooting provider fixes and all that kind of stuff and then a separate channel for Hardware. + +Tyler Wright: All right, figure that out and take next steps there but much appreciate you bringing that up Scott. Does anyone else have anything documentation related that hasn't been discussed? already + +Tyler Wright: I know it's an action items off follow up and share some repos on where people can specifically contribute to documentation. So that again it will live in the website revamp repo and it'll be visible in the staging site. But then again any specific documentation that needs to be added a timely fashion will get back ported to the current website while we For the website recap to happen. + +Tyler Wright: Thomas is going to spend some time continuing to create some videos and I'll share those and Discord with folks so that you can get some real-time feedback. And again we can get those shared across social and attitude YouTube or whatever Zach has in mind for him. And then again, we'll talk about the provider Hardware Channel tomorrow a little bit more detail during Sig providers. I know that as an aside Benjamin who is working on a open source auditing tool believe also be presentation providers to talk a little bit about next steps with his project. So feel free to join that conversation tomorrow as well as I'm sure continued conversations around State providers. + +Tyler Wright: and then yeah, we'll just continue to work on a B1 of the AMD support documentation that I'll be shared with folks in the community and it could be continued to be optimized over time and the community will continue to look at the documentation themselves both the current docs data Costa Network as well as again, the staging link that's available for folks and continue to get feedback on any documentation holes anything that I think can be edited. Proved Etc and we'll start to map out kind of like a Time structure and a pricing structure for rewards around more Community contributions for they cost stocks. + +Tyler Wright: Alright much appreciate everybody if there's nothing else then let you all go a couple minutes early and we can continue to talk on Discord and follow up with those action items. And again as mentioned simple has also been sharing documentation in terms of builds with Scott. So I'm sure that documentation will be available and updated very soon but much appreciated everybody's time and contributions today and we'll continue to work together offline. If you know anybody that wants to get involved in documentation and feel free to have them, join these calls or join the meeting or join the Discord so that again we can find more folks in the community that can contribute to documentation but much appreciate you all. Thank you very much. + +Andrey Arapov: Thank you very much. Thank you everyone. + +Benjamin B: Thank you. + +Scott Carruthers: That's everyone. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: the + +Meeting ended after 00:39:06 👋 + From c0592d759f29e6d3943722b64ae46ed99320480f Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Drinkwater Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 09:50:47 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 2/8] sig-docs Update README.md add to table for meeting 13 Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --- sig-documentation/README.md | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sig-documentation/README.md b/sig-documentation/README.md index 41cc504d..79ebdecc 100644 --- a/sig-documentation/README.md +++ b/sig-documentation/README.md @@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ The goal of this SIG is to foster a community around the creation and maintenanc | #10 | Tuesday, October 24, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md#transcript) | [Link](https://j7umqwzmkiglhuckkezav7c2rbh4cirv4d2nrjophespxwsjqtxa.arweave.net/T-jIWyxSDLPQSlEyCvxaiE_BIjXg9Nilzzkk-9pJhO4) | #11 | Tuesday, November 28, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/011-2023-11-28.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/011-2023-11-28.md#transcript) |[Link](https://na7gjhjowrrxc37tzk76rixczxf4st6b3rjpfjrzktiln7yxuckq.arweave.net/aD5knS60Y3Fv88q_6KLizcvJT8HcUvKmOVTQtv8XoJU) | #12 | Tuesday, December 19, 2023 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/012-2023-12-19.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/012-2023-12-19.md#transcript)|[Link](https://w3evlgbcqz4g4b4kicipe3gxrblirj4f2czs3eutaibrqrp7xtva.arweave.net/tslVmCKGeG4HikCQ8mzXiFaIp4XQsy2SkwIDGEX_vOo) -| #13 | Tuesday, January 23, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | +| #13 | Tuesday, January 23, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/013-2024-01-23.md#transcript) |[Link](https://ggtsa72sjsvu3yph245qmj6zvpy7uyys7jerkj72heitmyoiv2na.arweave.net/Macgf1JMq03h59c7BifZq_H6YxL6SRUn-jkRNmHIrpo) | #14 | Tuesday, February 27, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #15| March, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #16| April, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | From d354b9759a55506a510f2583d0c53176df7e5f14 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 15:57:42 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 3/8] Create meeting notes for Sig-Providers #13 (#484) * Create meeting notes for Sig-Providers #13 Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * Update 013-2024-01-24.md Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * Update 013-2024-01-24.md add transcript Signed-off-by: Drinkwater * Update 013-2024-01-24.md add recording Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Signed-off-by: Drinkwater Co-authored-by: Drinkwater --- sig-providers/meetings/013-2024-01-24.md | 377 +++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 377 insertions(+) create mode 100644 sig-providers/meetings/013-2024-01-24.md diff --git a/sig-providers/meetings/013-2024-01-24.md b/sig-providers/meetings/013-2024-01-24.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cbaf2f05 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-providers/meetings/013-2024-01-24.md @@ -0,0 +1,377 @@ +# Akash Network - Providers Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #13 + +## Agenda +- Update from Praetor on all of the work that they have been doing. +- Discussion on Akash GitHub Discussions and Provider Review Proposal by Alani Kuye. +- Andrew Mello updates on Akash OS development. +- Open Discussion on all things related to Akash Providers. + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2023 +- Time: 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://7jnmboxzie2zlrw5nrmwu7ddgmzxiaywbjvmbx2xpr5qmfss7s3a.arweave.net/-lrAuvlBNZXG3WxZanxjMzN0AxYKasDfV3x7BhZS_LY)) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Alani Kuye +- Andrew Mello +- Andrey Arapov +- Anil Murty +- Artur Troian +- B S +- Benjamin B +- Damir Simpovic +- Deval Patel +- Jigar Patel +- Max +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Carruthers +- Tyler Wright +## Meeting notes + +#### Tyler Wright: +- Welcomes everyone to the first meeting of 2024 for the special interest group monthly meetings. +- Highlights diverse participation from various providers, including data centers, individual providers, and those with accommodations and GPUs. +- Mentions the Praetor Team's role in developing a provider build tool for easy provider creation. +- Notes Praetor Team's community pool funds in 2023. +- Updates on the Praetor Team's efforts, including support for GPU testnet, GPU mainnets, and work on content moderation. +- Announces dedicated time for Jigar and Deval to provide a high-level presentation on the team's plans for 2024 Q1. +- Benjamin received community pool funding for an open source auditor and other contributions. +- Announces the formation of a working group for community involvement in tracking Benjamin's team's work on open source auditing tools. +- Seeks community feedback and asks for objections to the working group. +### Provider-Audits Progress Update by Benjamin B +- Benjamin expresses gratitude for the working group channel and the opportunity to share information publicly. +- Outlines the plan for the open source auditing work +- Indicating a schedule until March with the actual work beginning between the half of this month and the last of this month. +- Acknowledges challenges faced by his brother, who has been dealing with environmental issues and working overtime, impacting the progress. +- Benjamin has started preparing smaller details for each system and shares that communication on the plan is ongoing via direct messages (DMs). +- Plans to share more information in the working group Discord once it is set up. +- Tyler acknowledges Benjamin's update and expresses gratitude. +- Commits to creating a working group channel for the open source auditing work. +- Tyler announces the initiation of scheduling for dedicated time on the calendar for discussions in the upcoming week or two. + +### Praetor Q1 2024 Roadmap by Jigar Patel +- Jigar Patel presents the Q1 2024 roadmap for the Praetor Team. +- Key focus areas include addressing user feedback, solving common issues faced by Akash users, and implementing requested features. +- Primary issues to be addressed: + - Enabling multiple drives in ephemeral storage. + - Providing options for custom nodes, including the ability to create nodes in a user's own Kubernetes cluster. + - Implementing a provider notification system for upgrades and important information. + - Enhancing error handling and presenting errors more informatively in the UI. + - Addressing DNS-related issues, including better handling of DNS entries and wildcards. + - Open APIs for collaborating with other teams, specifically for the audit process. + - Handling SSH connection issues with improved UI feedback. + - Integrating any upgrades introduced by Akash into the provider process. +#### Feedback and Discussion on Praetor Q1 2024 Roadmap +- Damir Simpovic offers helpful videos for setting up port forwarding, DNS, and other concepts, especially for new providers. Praetor Team expresses interest in sharing these video links for community guidance. +- Jigar clarifies that the process for Helm-based providers is essentially the same, with the only difference being the decision not to build the node inside Kubernetes, offering the option for providers to create a node if they have large enough servers. +- Anil Suggests addressing limitations for AI/ML workloads, particularly related to data downloading, labeling, and support for shared memory. +- Highlights the need for diagnostic information on GPU card temperatures, voltages, and potential overheating issues. +- Praetor Team acknowledges the feedback and expresses a willingness to investigate and contribute to these areas. +- Anil Murty expresses interest in discussing challenges faced by AI/ML developers, especially related to data downloading, labeling, and GPU diagnostics. +#### Deval Inputs +- Praetor Team expresses willingness to contribute to code libraries and investigate issues related to AI/ML workloads, GPU diagnostics, and shared memory support. +- Praetor Team discusses preliminary plans for Q1 2024 and is open to community ideas and feedback. +- Deval highlights the community's request for a UI feature to add more nodes to a single provider and discusses the challenges and considerations for expanding the roadmap. +- Deval Complaints about the fees for updating provider attributes and suggested to initiate a discussion on GitHub for further consideration. + +### Andrew Mello presents updates on Akash OS development +- Akash OS is currently under development and is powering the largest provider in production on the Akash Network. +- It is designed to be an ISO or an image that can be installed on any machine, providing Ubuntu 22.04, a Kubernetes cluster, and a default account provider installation or configuration. +- New updates include the ability to deploy Akash OS to any machine without the need for an ISO, thanks to Ansible playbooks. +- The upcoming feature, Auto Port Forwarding, will automatically configure new providers with a public domain managed by akashos.com, reducing the barrier to entry for new providers. +- The goal is to make the configuration process seamless for new users and providers, minimizing the need for technical knowledge in networking, firewall setup, and DNS record management. +- A release around the first week of March is expected, making the onboarding process for new providers more straightforward. +- Akash Dash com, where providers can monitor their earnings, is ready for a Kepler integration. +- Providers will be able to claim their account by authenticating with their Kepler wallet, enabling features such as editing the page, setting up notifications, and having an account on Akash Dash com. +- Users and providers are encouraged to try out the new updates, dive into GitHub repos, and provide feedback to improve the tools and make them production-ready. +### GitHub Discussions and Provider Review Proposal +#### Alani Kuye's Overview: +- Alani Kuye expresses gratitude and acknowledges the inspiring work of the community. +- Emphasizes the need to focus on the demand side of the marketplace and addresses challenges faced in past experiences. +- Recognizes the success in increasing the number of providers and highlights the importance of shifting focus to deployers. +- Proposes a strategic approach to incentivize deployers and align with provider incentives. +- Advocates for a low cognitive load for deployers to encourage broader participation from various personas in the ecosystem. +- Stresses the importance of simplifying the review process, drawing parallels with platforms like Airbnb and Amazon. +- Highlights the need to cater to different audiences, including system admins and executives, in the review process. +- Emphasizes the goal of keeping deployers engaged for longer periods and ensuring a seamless experience. +- Acknowledges feedback received on the proposal, addressing concerns about expenses and emphasizing the broader perspective. +#### Discussion on Hourly Rate and Feedback on Provider Review Proposal +- Benjamin B raises a point regarding the hourly rate mentioned in proposals and ad hoc opportunities within the community. +- Tyler interjects, suggesting to keep non-provider-related conversations for the steering committee meeting. +- Tyler encourages feedback specifically related to how the review process may affect providers. +- Alani Kuye provides perspective on the operational differences between incentivizing providers and deployers. +- Stresses the importance of considering the different audiences and user experiences. +- Alani urges the group to think differently and make a mental shift when addressing the needs of deployers. +- Tyler redirects the discussion to Anil, who has provided comments in the chat, and encourages further discussion offline. +### Input by Anil Murty regarding Client Discussion +- Anil Murty provides insights on building clients, targeting specific user segments, and the importance of tactically approaching customers. +- Mentions examples like healthcare clients discussed in a recent Twitter Spaces session. +- Anil suggests focusing on specific actions clients can take to drive further adoption. +- Alani Kuye acknowledges Anil's input and discusses the Twitter Spaces conversation around Solve care clients. +- Anil mentions bringing Solve Care into the Akash ecosystem and emphasizes the need for due diligence. +- Tyler intervenes, emphasizing the focus on providers during the SIG Provider call. +- Anil suggests continuing the discussion on clients in the SIG Clients call or on GitHub, respecting the agenda focus on providers. +- Tyler concurs with the redirection, urging participants to leave comments on the GitHub proposal for Alani. + +### Closing Remarks +- Tyler announces the setup of a working group channel on Discord and plans to initiate the first working group session. +- Reminds everyone of the upcoming steering committee meeting scheduled for tomorrow at 11 AM Pacific time. +- Extends appreciation for everyone's time, effort, and commitment to the future endeavors of the group. +- Invites participants to drop any further questions or comments in the providers' channel for asynchronous discussion. + +## Action Items +- Tyler to create a working group channel for the open source auditing work. +- Tyler to set up dedicated time on the calendar for discussions in the next week or two. +- Anil Murty will schedule a meeting with the praetor team to discuss specific challenges faced by providers. +- Further discussions will be initiated on GitHub to address UI improvements and reduce fees for updating provider attributes. + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody to the first ly meeting of 2024 during the special interest group monthly meetings. The group here goes over anything related to their costs provider. Usually we have a great deal of participation for a number of different kinds of providers on the Akash Network, whether data centers individual providers some some have accommodations and gpus. So again, there's a great representation types of providers during these monthly meetings. + +Tyler Wright: In addition the prior team who is built a provider build tool on that makes it easy to build the provider. If you don't have a great deal of experience using the documentation and CLI. They also received some community pool funds in 2023 and have given updates on all the work that they've been doing as it relates to helping providers be able to build for the GPU testnet and GPU main Nets their work around content moderation and a number of other items that they've been working on in I know as we get ready for as we start 2024 we'll set out some time today for Digger and Deval from the prey to our team to give a high level + +Tyler Wright: Presentation I know they did at the end of I think November's monthly meeting. But just to give a high level of the kinds of things that they're thinking about as we start off 2024 q1. In addition Benjamin who is also I believe on this call recently received community pool funding for an open source auditor and some other open source contributions to indexer and some other items. I know that again. We're going to set up a working group that I wanted to announce here and get some Community feedback as Benjamin in his team start to work on development of the open source auditing tools. + +Tyler Wright: There's going to be a specific working group. So the community can continue to track and work very closely with Benjamin. Hen and his team. does anybody have any objections to having a specific working group for the open source auditing work that Benjamin is team have + +Tyler Wright: Or we're going to be working I'm going to set that up. And then anybody from the community that wants to participate in those working group sessions with more than welcome, and I'll add them as an to the events calendar and to the other calendars that we have for Community groups special description working groups. + +Tyler Wright: Real quick before we move on and Benjamin. I know that you are just received community pool funds over the holidays. Do you want to give a high level as we get ready to tell the working group on where you are in some quick next steps. It could be a minute or less and then we can really dive in at that dedicated working group session next week or whenever we have that. + +Benjamin B: Sure, Thanks for the word. So now that we have the working group Channel we can start to share some stuff publicly. We have a plan on what to do in for everything until March but we have the timeline between the half of this month and the last of this month to start work and my brother has been having a lot of the issues. We Face environment and has been working a lot of overtime. So we have not had the opportunity to do a whole lot yet. I have been starting to prepare a lot of smaller details on what we need to include in each system and we have a plan on how we should develop each system. + +Benjamin B: between our DMs but as soon as this working group generous don't I will share some more information there. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you min. So I have an action item that I'll create a working group channel for the open source auditing work as well as start to set up some time on the calendar for folks to live over next week or two. + +00:05:00 + +Tyler Wright: Cool real quick. I know that there are a number of discussions that are happening right now in akash's GitHub. + +Tyler Wright: So I really appreciate those that are bringing up discussions and those are participating in the discussions. If you see anything that you want to participate in again, this is an important part of the open source framework to get a community feedback. I've dropped it in there but specifically as it relates to providers and I know that Benjamin again recently received community pool funding we don't want to take a significant time, but I do want to shout out Alani who's on the call here today and is also put a proposal for a cost network provider review and incentives proposal. It's proposal number four 53, and I wanted to again I hope that we can have folks that are on this call or in the community just give feedback and get help discussions. But with Alani here live alani's if you so desire, I just want to give you + +Tyler Wright: maybe a minute or so to talk at a high level about the review proposal and maybe some of your thoughts and initial feedback that you've been getting on the discussions if you don't mind. + +Alani Kuye: You're sure and tie things were organizing these guys always get to see you all and it's very inspiring to see all the work that everyone is doing. The more importantly it's also good to see that we're still solving for these difficult problems as many of I kind of do my thing behind the scenes but I think given where we are right now, one of the things we encountered, in the past. when I run the program we solved a lot for the providers went from what eleven to almost 300 in a matter of months, thanks to a lot of your efforts in just a shout out on the pre-to-team Maxine, everyone on this call, played a role in that so I think when we give it to the other side on the demand side, I'm coming from a strategic perspective in that. + +Alani Kuye: we've solved a lot for provider side. It's easy to become a provider today in that process continues to evolve positively and it's reflected in the walk you guys are doing I think taking the demand side which is where we need to really focus and dislodging it and Tackle them differently because two sided marketplaces have two very different unique needs and of course everything happens on chain. So from a provider perspective, how do we make it easy for folks who continue to deploy when we incentivize them so I know Chang had put something up for God and provider incentives with I + +Alani Kuye: About a nine million dollar proposal or something like that. But how could we code terminally tapping to that to incentivize deployers to stay longer and that requires a very strategic approach, and that's why I'm pushing very hard to dislodge both and Tackle them are separate exercises. that way we understand all the metrics and data literacy around incentivizing deployers, but also symbiotically tapping into The provider incentives finally, which I think is even more important making the cognitive load. So low. + +Alani Kuye: That even the folks in web 2 who may not know where to start can participate because your ecosystem is not just devs and we've been solving so much for developers that we live in human beings, behind the scenes and we're not just building for us and our friends right? We're building for a much broader arm strategic audience. So everyone from students conferences Architects Executives, artists bloggers, media folks every Persona is reflected in who deploys and how do we make it easy the review process, you can't take a gunship little fist fight right the same way. We know that low cognitive load. It calls rapid adoption in high cognitive load is the other way around + +Alani Kuye: So as it is today as admitted easy for providers will continue to solve for that based on incumbency. We need to Pivot to the other side, but approach it very very differently because deployers haven't even lower cognitive look to get in and how do we do that? Make the review processes just like Airbnb or Amazon. We know there's a referral program somewhere within the ecosystem. All those things are related, but we have to dislodge both, we can lump everything into One big exercise, and I think what B is doing is fantastic, especially the audit information. Think about those who want to do due diligence and providers, especially with complex workloads, There's two audiences. There's a systems admin and there's your executive as an executive. I don't have the time. + +00:10:00 + +Alani Kuye: to go into those details so your one review was there any level two is where you go deeper into it. So we have to solve for those audiences because again time is a premium and the easier we make it the more we tap into that audience and more people have longer deployments instead of the drive by that would tend to see and as a market involves we need to be cognizant of that because you can't scale what you can't simplify and we have to Pivot and start to solve. the other side of that Marketplace which are deployers and how can we keep people deploying for longer? While making sure it Remains the medical policy and everything happens on shame. So you have to sign every transaction every way you ever wish where you put it off there. So that's my perspective. I mean always open to conversation. I've gotten everything from it's too expensive. good dance costs. I mean this isn't one person building, we have to look at this thing from a broader perspective. There's different personas that are involved in this exercise. It's not a money issue because again, + +Alani Kuye: And we're talking to wife gay, and it's gonna involve everyone most of which are on the score anyway, so it's not new territory. It's just a way to make sure that we're solving for the other side of the transaction. We're too comfortable with providers. So I want to be the bad guy to say let's start paying attention to deployers and do uncomfortable things because in my experience the things you're not comfortable doing other things that actually going to work. So let's move a little bit away from our comfort zone and do something different. + +Alani Kuye: Benjamin + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I have one thing. I tried to comment on the discussions page, but I must have closed my car. Anyways, I just wanted to speak about the hourly rate. I don't think that regardless of how big of our project this could be. I don't think it's necessarily about projecting up anyway. But I want to say that. + +Benjamin B: the most proposals and other ad hoc opportunities that have been erased within the community of either being 50 dollars per hour for the proposals and what I've seen I've also seen some hoc opportunities with up to 100 dollars per hour. So I don't think it's super weird that you're getting these comments that they already read this quite large. + +Tyler Wright: Real quick, just for the sake of time and I know there's a number of things on the agenda. I just would ask that we can keep any conversations related to anything that's non provided related in the discussions. We'll have some time to talk about that during the steering committee tomorrow, but I just wanted to specifically see if anybody had any feedback because I know that there was some conversation about who should be able to review, what that criteria is and so I just wanted to as alani's building this out and thinking this out a little bit more from the provider perspective. I just want to see if any providers how to initial thoughts and how this review process, may affect them. And again if nobody has any thoughts right now or they want to put those in discussion feel free to do that, but I think any conversations on rate and any of that kind of stuff we can save for steering committee or get help discussions if y'all don't mind + +Alani Kuye: Yeah, and that's our man. Thanks for I'm raising that tie and I think we'll provide a perspective. we know we solve for providers multitude ways, And that's why we having this conversation because everything related is we have to Take an operational maturity perspective, we can't Benchmark this based on the X exercises for providers the same way you incentivize pools for providers is not the same way you do it for deployers. It's very different audience. It's a different Market places a different process. + +Alani Kuye: Right, I mean back in the day when we have to build, some of the first providers, how long it took Gamo farms and all that means setting up servers. I mean it was insane but compare that till today it's easy point point click click and everyone on this call can attest to that right? So in moving to that other side, we can't say based on what we've done for providers, those same procedures and methodology will apply to deployers. It's a very different audience. It's a very different + +Alani Kuye: At places ux heavy right the folks who will be doing the death tasks QA uat before the five stages of development. I mean been doing this 22 years that there are no shortcuts. Okay, those audiences are a mixed bag. So you have folks from from folks on the Legacy space both another one technical right who want to see providers and who are these that's why you use the anilogy of Airbnb or Amazon. + +00:15:00 + +Alani Kuye: I don't have to go to those platforms to check reviews on some of those wholesale providers that can see them on bloggers referred me different ways. You can scan that Gap, right? So my point is I think this is where you have to think of it. Let's look outside of our comfort zone. Why does this look different because we're now working on the other side of the marketplace coming from someone who's Bill Marketplace isn't my last company I saw but 28 million because we build 30,000 driver. So I want to suffer three million people. So again, that's what I'm trying to get. What's this month to think differently like make a mental shift? You You're Building, for those who are not incumbents looking from a very different perspective. That it's a little bit uncomfortable at first, but when you start to understand why the bigger picture starts to make sense Anil. + +Tyler Wright: Sorry, that was me. I think a Neil put some comments in the chat. and then I think I'll also put some comments in discussions. And again, we can just continue this conversation offline. And again, we could talk a little bit more about it and steering committee and thread go ahead and + +Anil Murty: Watching three so really there's no other way to build this out then to go build those clients, go after specific segments of users and then very very tactically individually go and go go after customers and make sure that they're successful on Akash, So if you saw the Twitter species yesterday, it's all care. That's an example of a customer that took us a long time to get to and it's stuff like that that really was going to drive us forward. So I mean There are seven clients that are being great including sphere on and clouds each of these questions you slightly different patterns of the ux so,… + +Alani Kuye: Yeah. Yeah, Anil good to hear from you. + +Anil Murty: my suggestion and… + +Alani Kuye: I think the Twitter supposedly was interesting right… + +Anil Murty: I'll definitely read Your data post and… + +Alani Kuye: because That's a two-year conversation in making and… + +Anil Murty: comment on that as well is if you can identify specific things that these clients can do in order to help Drive adoption further. + +Alani Kuye: for those who don't know. I brought salt care into the akashicial system. Okay, and… + +Anil Murty: That's probably the best thing for us to do on the client side is presentation or… + +Alani Kuye: the same due diligence we're talking about today is the same thing that we're trying to do two years ago when I brought them in and… + +Anil Murty: my thought at this point, but I don't want to take up all the time in the provider say we should definitely talk Hey Alani,… + +Alani Kuye: the first one. + +Anil Murty: talk about this in this declines. so I'm sorry to intermed. We'll have to take this off of to another call. This is the sick provider call. And yeah, I don't know about history assaultier, but for two years it was nothing that was done on it and all this happened in the last two months. So I'm sorry to cut you off but we really have to focus on providers on this call and we can definitely talk about clients on the sick clients call we can talk about it in GitHub, but Tyler your choice here, but I don't think this is the right place to talk about. and if there is Merit and bring it up in the meeting clients in demand + +Anil Murty: + +Alani Kuye: don't think + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, no. Yeah exactly. And I think I made that clear a couple times. But again, if anybody can look at the GitHub proposal and leave comments in there. I know that Alani is looking for more feedback. That would be greatly appreciated. + +Tyler Wright: cool Continuing to move along. I know that again the pre-tor team has once again update on some of the things that they are thinking about for q1 2020 2024 real quick. And I think Alani also just mentioned it in regards to the GPU provider incentives. I know that's a conversation that Chang put up on chain, I think a week or so ago and there's been a lot of great discussion. thank you to folks on this call and other folks in the community that have participated in discussion. If anybody has any further thing that they want to talk about or any other questions, feel free to drop it in the GitHub discussions, and I know that we'll talk about this tomorrow during the steering committee meeting but again because this also touches that provider I just want to mention it here on the providers monthly meeting. + +00:20:00 + +Tyler Wright: And again push people to go looking at discussion give feedback ask questions and then join the steering committee tomorrow to talk about it in more detail. + +Tyler Wright: cool with that being said does anyone have any questions on GPU provider incentives before we move on to an update on some of the things that the prayer team are thinking about for q1 2024? + +Alani Kuye: All right. + +Tyler Wright: All right, igar. I'll hand it over to you or at the ball because I know that you all have been putting some time and effort into a specific plan a perfect. And then once the pre-tour team has presented a plan and we gotten questions from the prayer tour team. Then Andrew Mello was mentioned in a chat that he has some updates and I'll hand over to Andrew Mello. So jigarette and Deval you guys go first and then what open up to questions and then we'll follow with the angel Mello. + +Jigar Patel: Thanks Shadow. So for this presentation, basically we wanted to get a feedback from everybody about our q1 roadmap. And this is just like we are in the last meeting we presented over 2024 roadmap and we are chilling down to what we're gonna work on this Q one particular. + +Jigar Patel: These three months and based on the user feedbacks. we have certain things that our users and Akash users are facing right now issues currently they are not able to do multiple drives in FML storage test. One of them issued others are no issues. Sometimes they're facing a node issue where they wanted to supply custom nodes or they wanted to do a node in their own kubernetes cluster. So that's our other Focus as well. We are doing a kind of starting provided notification, which is very very basic right now, which will basically opt in process where you obtain for email notification. So if there is a upgrade on a network that + +Jigar Patel: All the providers have to do it. We kind of store their email address and just send them out and notifications. So people know that there is upgrade and we have to update our provider. We're gonna continue core provider service contribution. There's one more thing was the log issue. So whenever the providers become whatever using old process They're not able to see any logs if they wanted to see what's happening behind the scenes. So + +Jigar Patel: we are also building that log process. We're also doing a little bit better job at have error handling right? So, let me just share my screen real quick and I can go through the process or what we are going to do in just share + +Jigar Patel: so basically our plan in q1 is to solve this kind of primary six issues and then some misk operates that we are actually doing to resolves of the most. Ask supports from our community. So this is the exercise that we did from the last provider meeting. We found out that what are the areas that we are spending most of the time giving the support and let's solve that issues first. I work what are the most asked features from our providers in both provider channels and our ecosystem director channel, so + +00:25:00 + +Jigar Patel: Solving those issues are starting with everywhere multiple drives in every storage. So this issue comes a lot where small providers who don't want to give a personal storage, but they wanted to do multiple driving FML So basically combined storage process and then doing that into the Custom node options. So multiple ways to do it currently Akash core Library creates a node inside the kubernetes that we are not to do it, but we will give that option to users if they wanted to create a motor if they're servers is big enough so they can handle node. So that was one of the requirement because a lot of small providers are becoming provider where they only have + +Jigar Patel: Eight gigs of RAM and what eight CPUs sometimes even lower than that if they run nor inside the kubernetes, then it's become very like they cannot provide a lot of resources to network, So that's why we opt out to do question more but we will give them a new options where they can even choose the public mode they want if they want to use Twitter node, that's fine and They wanted to create a node inside a kubernetes because also be qns option probably notification what I explained earlier will give you important information like upgrades in an email in obviously. + +Jigar Patel: We will continue doing the provider service contribution in a core Library. we've been from that there will be a change is coming in. So we did a PR in control moderation, but obviously there will be a changes in coming as courty members who mentioned so we have to change our code as well. But yeah, that's and also any more contribution needed. We will be happy to provide that will stream logs into build process. This do you Longview feature that a lot of user requested we all so will be able to do a little bit more on error handling side because a lot of the errors are very common if the machine goes offline during the process we kind of like if we have an issue connecting it and + +Jigar Patel: SSS process don't give us kind of what are the errors And in the past our user had troubles. According to those errors because they don't know what's happening. And then we have to go into see logs and see what's happening maybe on their part is not open. Maybe DNS is not resolved. So things like that we want to do basically present better in UI, so I'll say thirty forty percent of the supports is just something they didn't do prior to Trader Bay process, right and that process with their doing it. + +Jigar Patel: Probably have error and then we have to you did that. Probably there. You're not right. So basically showing the process a little bit more informative. So they know what's happening. when they ask questions they know what's there on their facing so we can be at better head and error ol Miss cup breads, obviously DNS issue. So I would say another 20 30 percent providers have issue where they are not good at putting to DNS entries and our documentation. It doesn't handle that much very well on that issue as well. So a lot of people forget to put + +Jigar Patel: A wired card English or providers into their DNS. So we don't even know what's 30 years in a site. So right now in the dashboard when you become a provider, it's just says that your providers are fine, but we should see that if that DNS is rolling to their IP. If not, then we can better so that issue or give them steps to how to resolve that issue. Obviously we are gonna do the open apis for other teams like Benjamin where we can forward it now. + +00:30:00 + +Jigar Patel: Audit process to them now rather than the modri on it. So that's coming in connection issue again, A lot of people are having this issue. We wanted to just handle that better at the UI level again better talks and any upgrades that Akashi is putting in we will put into the process and put into the updates. Yeah, so that's our q100map any feedback Is very helpful God damir. + +Damir Simpovic: Okay, can you hear me? + +Tyler Wright: Yes. + +Damir Simpovic: All right regarding the first two points that you mentioned about what supports questions are the most common. I've actually made the I'm sure you are you remember but it's been quite a while since I see anybody mentioned it there is a number of videos that I did. That are primarily done for Helm based provider installs. However, there are also + +Damir Simpovic: they also apply to Such as how to set up port forwarding for any provider whether it's helbase or better based how to set up DNS. + +Damir Simpovic: Again, it doesn't matter which type of install. Anyone is using those videos are the same they will apply to everyone. etc. So, yeah, feel free to not trying these information videos. I don't make any money or anything of them, but just trying to make your life easier. You can just direct and you can just direct and have them watch these videos there 20 minutes half an hour and they will have a much better idea because you are right. A new providers especially home-based providers or somebody who's doing this for as a hobby or as they don't know. They don't know these things and it's very new to them and these concepts are + +Damir Simpovic: I mean everybody can has a + +Jigar Patel: Thanks, Absolutely. We will put your videos link again, for us. We are not gonna build any videos for that. We were just directing to forward some kind of videos in YouTube showing that how to do DNS entries, And if you have build I know so I've watched some of your videos, So what are we gonna do we gonna put your videos into the link so they can see how it work. It's working again. I just wanted to clarify and now pretty use Helms, So from even last year, So the whole process is it's exactly same we're just not building the node inside the kubernetes. That's the only difference because then those are one of the things that we had to manage. So if the note is not catching up then + +Jigar Patel: They will have some issues into the releases, So that's why we opt out but that's why we are giving the node option now. So that big enough there if they have multiple clusters, we can run configure with the node inside that right. but yeah, I just wanted to clarify we are using him is not different than the core process. quieter + +Tyler Wright: Go ahead. + +Anil Murty: Hey guys. Yeah, So awesome presentation. I like all the things that you have on the slide a couple of other ones that I can add and I have a few more notes on this second past you jigar couple of things. I've seen a lot of particularly the AI ml devs that we are trying to attract to GPU marketplaces. That they run into our number one if you're running a AI training job or even in some cases a fine tuning workload. You might want to be data downloading essentially data and then labeling it which is very CPU bound and then at the same time being able to access that same data to run training. So you might have a really large data set of several millions of objects downloading that into a + +00:35:00 + +Anil Murty: into some storage or area memory and then accessing it separately for the gpus to be able to train on it and one of the limitations today we have is that we don't support shared memory natively. And so that's an area that we have to look at Potentially in the next few months. I'm hoping so there's an issue that's created for that. and then the other thing also that I've noticed a lot of times happen with again people that are using gpus for various reasons is anytime one of these GPU cards overheats and sometimes results in the cache. + +Anil Murty: There isn't a lot of diagnostic information today that we're able to surface up in terms of for example, the temperatures on the voltage on the cards things like that. So that's another thing that I was wondering if there's something that we should do about it, but not saying that any other things on your roadmap need to be changed, but just wanted to throw them out. There is other pieces of feedback I've seen Thanks. + +Jigar Patel: Thanks for the feedback il. Yeah, if you wanted to ask to spend some time in doing any and kind of research in Ram issue or overheating issues right? Please let us know that's why we have read put the provider service contribution. That's one of the things that we wanted to do more in 2024 putting some hours into code libraries as we have done in past where the country for sorry content moderation, right? So we have a better understanding how the things work. So yeah. + +Tyler Wright: The ball,… + +Anil Murty: That sounds good. Yes. + +Tyler Wright: go ahead. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, sorry you can go. + +Deval Patel: Can you hear me? + +Tyler Wright: No. Yeah, I can hear you. I don't think anything else is speaking. I know did you have anything that you wanted to say? + +Anil Murty: No just gonna say I should raise my hand. I was just going to respond to jigarette say that sounds good. We can set up some time. I'll work with you to discuss some of the things that I've heard from people that are trying to do fine-tuning and machine learning type of workloads on providers in the challenges that they run into we have solved a couple of them, but there are some really big ones that we need to solve supporting. Sha. So, thank you. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so these are just preliminary things… + +Tyler Wright: Thank you. + +Deval Patel: what we have in the q1 broad webinar higher level, we can go more deeper in the one to one or meeting where you can dive and prepare a roadmap for us. Right and we are open to ideas. What are the important things and facing whatever the challenges you are facing or hearing from providers in terms of GPU providers or our CPU providers, They're happy to accommodate that right another thing which is actually a lots of people are asking is that they make single provided node with the Creator and then they want to add more nodes towards the same collider, right? + +Deval Patel: Right now there is no UI available for that. Right? We have to guide through them and guide them through some manual process. So yes that is another option. We should consider adding into the roadmap right? But then the roadmap because becomes bigger and it becomes multi quarter roadmap, right? So those are the things we try to avoid, so that those are the things I would like to say one more thing. I want to mention is people are complaining about updating coorder taking too much amount of akt. So let's say just recently few providers updated there provider attribute and it charged them feet create which is about seven and half dollars, So think about that to reducing so if we can reduce that, that would be nice. + +Tyler Wright: Cool, I think if you don't mind making a discussion around that we can talk about that more in GitHub and then take some necessary steps. There must appreciates jigar you and Deval going through a prayer's plan for the first quarter 2024. Does anyone have any initial questions or feedback about what the priorities are going on? + +00:40:00 + +Tyler Wright: cool I think you'll set up some time with the Neil to talk about some of the items that he's been seeing and then again, we'll work on next steps and flushing us out and maybe turning this into a discussion to get more feedback from folks that maybe are not on this call but much appreciate the presentation and we'll continue moving forward. + +Tyler Wright: Cool, if there's no questions for the pray to our team that I know Andrew Mello wanted to give some updates. So I will hand the floor over to Andrew Andrew take it away. + +Andrew Mello: Hi Tyler, if you want to just pull up the GitHub of a cost OS while I talk about it for a second here. That might be helpful. It's a GitHub crypto and coffee slash a coffee list. + +Tyler Wright: I just Hold on just one second. + +Andrew Mello: Just in case there's folks who haven't seen it. + +Andrew Mello: On the phone today, so, thanks. + +Andrew Mello: Yeah, so it's still under development and is now actually powering the largest provider in production on the cost. So it has now, been a bit battle tested in production and with that in mind there definitely some updates that I wanted to bring some attention to so as some of you may know and some of you may not know a Costco acid basically built to be an ISO or + +Andrew Mello: An image that you install on any machine to basically give it Ubuntu 22.04 a kubernetes cluster and a default account provider install all configured for you automatically and up until now that required you writing that image to an actual, USB key or an ISO to attach that to a VM or attach that to your bare metal and boot from it and I have now been able to create ansible playbooks to deploy Akash OS against any VPS or bare metal without the need for the iso so that's a really nice update that I'm gonna publish in the next coming days here, but we are able to deploy now a cash OS to any machine without the iso part, which is really nice. Also, probably the most important feature that I'm going to be working on in this coming month on. + +Andrew Mello: a contrast is what I'm calling Auto port forwarding. So basically new providers are going to be automatically configured with a public domain managed by akashos.com. And until the user goes in and changes that domain they're going to have a joke like a generic domain name and what that's going to allow us to do is basically manage their port forwarding for them and so for onboarding new providers, and one of the largest pain points we have right and have had over. + +Andrew Mello: The time here is setting up the networking doing firewall doing DNS records all that. it's not a good time. And to be honest, It's really excluded a lot of potential providers because that right there is a barrier to entry for a lot of people in a technical knowledge, kind of Gap, people might know how to get through a website or get through an install of something but they're not necessarily familiar with how to do, firewall port forwarding or how to set up their DNS records perfectly. So a Costco Essence is looking to solve that for onboarding new users and onboarding providers and I'm really would like to see a conscious go to market with that as kind of a main feature right to make the easiest configuration possible for someone. So I'm + +Andrew Mello: Paying a release around first week of March for that where a new provider deploying The Playbook or deploying the ISO. + +Andrew Mello: is going to have a provider up and running automatically and I'm even considering going a step further with it and funding those initial providers set up fees so that there is just zero friction right that initial domain and provider could again be managed in a way that we make that completely seamless to the user and that's really the ideal because asking these new providers to get the akt become firewall experts be domain experts, right? We've got a lot of odd stacked against them. So I'm trying to reduce those barriers to entry kind of as quickly and hearing them as what's most important and I think the most important thing to solve for the new provider is going to be that with auto port forwarding and automatic Dom. + +00:45:00 + +Andrew Mello: And for them so they can just get up and running and then either prompting them for the akt for the setup fee or just doing it for them and worrying about it later. So that's my thoughts on what's coming next on Akash OS and the Playbook will be live within 48 hours or so up on the GitHub. + +Andrew Mello: Akash Dash com is now ready for a Kepler integration. So Akash Dash com is where you can monitor your provider earnings and how much your provider has made over time with really easy to understand, numbers for dollars and cents and so a class staffs.com is going to get a Kepler integration where providers will be able to claim their account. So when you go to check your provider right now, they BDO dot computer and it comes up with the stats. You just see kind of read the concept here is to turn that into read Wright information where once you authenticate with your Kepler wallet as the provider with your provider wallet, you'll be able to edit, the page you'll be able to do things like set up notifications and you'll essentially have an account now on a cash so that's gonna enable + +Andrew Mello: Them features down the road monitoring notifications all that fun kind of stuff we can start to do with it and expand on and yeah, those were kind of the big updates of what I'm working on with the cost OS And again Akash OS is once again now powering the largest providers in production. So I would definitely recommend you take a look at how it's built. Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Does anyone have any questions for Andrew on anything? He just talked about in his updates? + +Tyler Wright: as Andrew just mentioned both with the parade or tool and with the Kash OS tool I would urge everybody to just try these things out to dive into the GitHub repos, test these tools out give feedback about things that you see to the prey to our team to Andrew so that we can continue to improve these tools and make sure that they are production ready but Andrew much appreciate your efforts and the update. Sorry Andrew, we're going to say something else. + +Andrew Mello: nope. That was it. Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: awesome Does anyone else have any other topics of discussion provider related that they want to discuss at this time? + +Tyler Wright: I'm much appreciate the conversation today the updates from Andrew from the praetor team discussions around what Benjamin is about to start building. And again, I'll set up a working group Channel and Discord and also start to set up the first working group session there. Thank you Alani for talking a little bit about your proposal that you put in discussions again reminder for everybody steering committee is happening tomorrow at 11AM Pacific as a part of the agenda. We will go through some of the just active discussions. I know there's a number of that have come in over the last couple of weeks. I would urge anybody that's going to talk about their discussion at steering committee tomorrow to just talk about it at the highest level about what you're trying to do ask what the problem that you're trying to solve and then we're going to continue to promote discussion over. + +Tyler Wright: Next week and then again, we'll hear from the steering committee because there's so many discussions happening whether it be around provider incentives where we've been discussion that Alani put forth. Obviously, we could spend an hour on each and I just want to make sure that we're just staying extremely focused and talking about the meat of what's going on with these discussions and then pushing people to get active and GitHub didn't get more feedback from the community. Cool again much appreciate everyone's time today great conversation. this is a couple of action items that will follow up on but if anybody has any questions comments or anything that they want to talk about further that they've heard here today. Feel free to drop in sick providers Channel and we'll just continue to talk async online but much appreciate everyone's effort time and commitment and really excited for what we got going on the future. + +00:50:00 + +Tyler Wright: Hope everyone has a great rest of their day. Thank you. + +Alani Kuye: Thanks dar. + +Andrew Mello: + +Tyler Wright: Over bye. + +Meeting ended after 00:50:46 👋 + From bb5bad3f164706de4db49b9077258b49a8c87d79 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Hewi <121134490+heyhewi@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 14:14:04 -0500 Subject: [PATCH 4/8] sig-economics: create meeting 13&14 and update README. (#506) * sig-economics - Create 013-2024-02-07.md Signed-off-by: Hewi <121134490+heyhewi@users.noreply.github.com> * sig-economics: Create 014-2024-03-06.md Signed-off-by: Hewi <121134490+heyhewi@users.noreply.github.com> * sig-economics: Update README.md Signed-off-by: Hewi <121134490+heyhewi@users.noreply.github.com> --------- Signed-off-by: Hewi <121134490+heyhewi@users.noreply.github.com> --- sig-economics/README.md | 4 +- sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md | 215 ++++++++++++++++ sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md | 309 +++++++++++++++++++++++ 3 files changed, 526 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) create mode 100644 sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md create mode 100644 sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md diff --git a/sig-economics/README.md b/sig-economics/README.md index 88f147a8..9630ac03 100644 --- a/sig-economics/README.md +++ b/sig-economics/README.md @@ -24,8 +24,8 @@ Meetings happen every [First Wednesday of the Month](https://calendar.google.com | #10 | Wednesday, November 1, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md#transcript) | [Link](https://6cjhlgaiutfckbasf6sqjbypkrhyjgll463t67f7aw3af5gtghea.arweave.net/8JJ1mAikyiUEEi-lBIcPVE-EmWvntz98vwW2AvTTMcg) | #11| Wednesday, December 06, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/011-2023-12-06.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/011-2023-12-06.md#transcript) | [Link](https://czik4rsznmpaxems7ffmui4fiaar7waib6gtwy5jt4pptosygpla.arweave.net/FlCuRllrHguRkvlKyiOFQAEf2AgPjTtjqZ8e-bpYM9Y) | #12| Wednesday, January 10, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/012-2024-01-10.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/012-2024-01-10.md#transcript) | [Link](https://gbxszp7zaubg3dskphdcgwpqkjtz3mb3zgtq46ka2yyzzkfij7na.arweave.net/MG8sv_kFAm2OSnnGI1nwUmedsDvJpw55QNYxnKioT9o) -| #13| Wednesday, February 07, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | -| #14| March, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | +| #13| Wednesday, February 07, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md#transcript) | [Link](https://6rzdyy2kxzn4qpilczq7vdvfd52kxb65rk4cnhor32f4cibhkqmq.arweave.net/9HI8Y0q-W8g9CxZh-o6lH3Srh92KuCad0d6LwSAnVBk) +| #14| Wednesday, March 06, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md#transcript) | [Link](https://l7relb4v4vhxhw4shqui4iyoyyeqdt6ogwpx2thybmneridemfnq.arweave.net/X-JFh5XlT3PbkjwojiMOxgkBz841n31M-AsaSKBkYVs) | #15| April, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #16| May, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #17| June, 2024 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md b/sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5e2f15e5 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/013-2024-02-07.md @@ -0,0 +1,215 @@ +--- +title: "Economics SIG Meeting #13" +key: "sig-economics-meeting-13" +date: 2024-02-07T18:00:00Z +contributors: + +- Adam Bozanich +- Adam Wozney +- Alani Kuye +- B S +- Cheng Wang +- Denis Lelic +- José Henrique Targino Dias Góis +- Max +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- SGC | DCnorse +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn + +--- + + + +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #13 + +## Agenda + +* Updates since last monthly sig-economics meeting. +* Updates on provider incentives. +* Open up to community for ideas or concerns. + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://6rzdyy2kxzn4qpilczq7vdvfd52kxb65rk4cnhor32f4cibhkqmq.arweave.net/9HI8Y0q-W8g9CxZh-o6lH3Srh92KuCad0d6LwSAnVBk) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants + +- Adam Bozanich +- Adam Wozney +- Alani Kuye +- B S +- Cheng Wang +- Denis Lelic +- José Henrique Targino Dias Góis +- Max +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- SGC | DCnorse +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn + +## Notes + +**Introduction and Updates** +- Scott initiated the meeting, gave a recap of meeting #12 and any outstanding items in discussions or on-chain items related to sig-economics. + +**Discussion on Provider Incentives** +- Provider incentives is currently being voted on-chain via [Proposal 246](https://www.mintscan.io/akash/proposals/246). The spend is only for Phase 1 of the program and is ~$3.5M worth of AKT. +- Cheng lays out the three phases of Provider Incentives Program (PIP). Phase one consists of a large committed pool of resources that require 1 year contracts. This is to ensure that there is a baseline level of supply that is not subject to individuals or companies adding/removing resources regularly. +- Phases two and three will be more closely like a "liquidity pool" where rewards are disbursed based on configuaration, uptime, and other metrics. This phase is still in progress and requires more thought on ways to operationlize effectively. +- Alani asked Cheng who owns the providers/hardware that is going on the network? Cheng responded that Data Centers and other individuals that go into the 1 year contracts are the ones who actually own the hardware and any depreciation or tax implications would be from their end. +- Cheng also states that while these providers are being paid for by the community pool, the revenue collected from these machines will go directly back into the community pool. +- Scott also calls out that everything that is being done will be be reported on as information arrises and funds are spent. There are no hard dates for reporting but Overclock Labs will be as transparent as possible given some information is commercial contracts. + +**Other Discussions** +- Alani emphasized the point that individuals need to actually be reading proposals both in Github Discussions and when they go on-chain. He has concerns for when people read a few lines and sharing their opinions without fully understanding what is being proposed. +- Cheng brought up the point that the Cloudmos team's six month contract for continuation services ended, but that the wallet used for the acquisition still has a significant amount of funds (due to the run-up in price of AKT). The proposal in [Github Discussions](https://github.com/orgs/akash-network/discussions/472) would repurpose lefrtover funds to continue paying the Cloudmos team for an additional 12 months. + +### Action Items +- All are welcome to contribute! Anyone who wants to contribute please visit sig-economics in the [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/akash) + +## Transcript +This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created. + +Scott Hewitson: All right everybody. This is the 13th I think economics call second of the year. + +Scott Hewitson: last month's call went a little long. There was quite a bit of discussion about provider incentives and a few questions on the Community tax and inflation props that it passed so I would encourage anyone who did not go to last month's call to read those notes and GitHub. And yeah, I'm not sure if we have too much to talk about to today. Let's see from the discussion side. There wasn't a whole lot going on outside of the provider incentives is currently on chain and being voted on scheduled to pass at the moment. I'll drop the link right here. So if you haven't seen it, please vote whichever way and yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: And then let's see if we had so in Discord not a whole lot of chatter just kind of, follow-ups from last session. So again check that out if you can. And I think for this call, maybe we can just kind of wrap a bow on the last bit of Provider incentives now that it's on chain and then kind of open it up to the community for any questions and concerns or anything that they want to talk about regulated to cig economics at Large. So with that Cheng, do you mind talking shortly of one Probably the fourth time that you've done it but a little bit more about provider incentives just to … + +Cheng Wang: No, I love it. + +Scott Hewitson: give everyone the lay of the land and maybe talk about some of the things that we incorporated since the last call before going on chain. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, there are quite a bit of work and ideation went into the last version that you saw go on chained for provider incentives program. We're calling the PIP for sure. We like to make things nice and snappy with the naming abbreviations there. So the primary change is I'm going to be is the phasing so phases one two, and three and each phase corresponds to particular bucket of funds that are allocated to GPU resources. So the biggest in phase one is currently what's on chain for approximately 3.5 million USD. All right, things fluctuate a little bit given market prices of akt, right, but either way the phase one is going to be for the committed pool of resources for those of you I'm sure most of you have read through it for those of you who didn't commit a resources. Takes into account some of the feedback from the community which is if we run a short lived. + +Cheng Wang: Provider incentive campaign what happens when those resources drop off? How do we ensure continuity for tenants? All that kind of stuff. Right? So the committed pool is how was expanded right relative to presentation terms to the total phase of total first presentation program in order to sign one year long commitments with various data centers in order to bring those high-end resources from data centers who are professionals at their job and do this for living so that those really resources are reliable. And number two is to ensure that those providers are adequately paid right and not dependent fully on, hosting workload. So we do anticipate these things to sell out very very quickly and they're not being an issue there and third is just continuity, So if you're someone doing some serious work, whether it's AI ml driven or something else and you want to deploy your applic + +Cheng Wang: And your use case you're back in whatever. It is on a caution Network you want continuity, You don't want these resources to disappear in three months. You're not out here just to kind of experiment potentially you might run proof of concept type of workloads, right just to get things started. But ultimately you want them to persist. So that's what the committed pool does. + +Cheng Wang: There for one year long leases and it'll be specifically with data center providers Not just like anybody out there the other two pools phases two and three are what we'll call liquidity pool. So that is going to be your very familiar with how pools are constructed. We'll have specific configurations that will map out. They're more likely be in the meeting like more the consumer grade chips or slash medium lower and data center great chips, right like that save you 100 30 90s 40 90s that ilk of Chip will be in that with those particular pool with us specific configurations necessary right for the network and that'll just be completely Community Driven and anyone who want to contribute those resources can contribute and that's that tier and then there's a final tier face three and these things don't have to occur. Sequentially they can occur concurrently, right just depending on timing and various other factors of when these resources + +00:05:00 + +Cheng Wang: on how they can be secured Etc phase three in the last one we'll call Next Generation R&D pool reason being is AI. mean technology in general moves extremely quickly and AI even more so + +Cheng Wang: And these chips really fall in and out of favor very very quickly. the life cycles are super duper short, 100s a 100 for example, I'm not sure if some of but those chips Nvidia has already stopped manufacturing in 100 in favor of the replacement architecture l40s. And so the l40s chip is replacing the a100 and a lot of people out there even those who are and I'll haven't even really, in their brain retrained it if you will that's a borrowed term to using l40s versus a 100s. So, the Next Generation pool allows the core team to go out there and stay on The Cutting Edge right like AMD support for example, a key core feature. We've been working on for a while. So, amd's enter the chat. So that's one other field of group of chips that we need to really keep an eye on right and in addition to that down coming down the pike is h100 right now. + +Cheng Wang: In the Krav as far as Nvidia is concerned and just generally right h200s are coming out. Then there's the whole Blackwell architecture b100s are in the next two years or so or year potentially and then there's the X Series right that's coming out after them lay around 2025 for NVIDIA and I'm not even sure what amd's roadmap and times like timelines look so suffice to say the R&D Next Generation pool allows us to really experiment in small bursts with some of these Where our chips and architectures to see what the actual supply and demand curve for potentially would look like and to encourage people to use these chips right and get data for the community for a caution and work so we can understand in subsequent iterations of providers incentive for two pip part three, etc. Etc. Can be more tuned to actual data, so + +Cheng Wang: Those are kind of the three phase one is already on chain proposals slated to pass as Huey's outlined and shared and that's what we got there any particular questions or thoughts around that? + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, just a quick clarifying question. So we got to the committed pools 12 months the next one phase two. The liquidity pool says four months. obviously some of those things can be running concurrently, the liquidity pools probably more interesting to some of the people at home who's got their 40 90s. Do we have any rough timelines on when we're thinking to implement something like that, or is it going to be and after that after the committed pool? + +Cheng Wang: I don't think it'll be after so. + +Cheng Wang: the committed pool once I passes we will like a lot of my new show So sorry if I'm a little boring. I'll try to go over quickly. So once we get the funds we have to get into a point where right now we're talking to, on the core team side a bunch of data center providers as far as you're availability as we get the funds just because get the funds doesn't mean the chips will be ready right away. These things are rather scarce in the environment at this point in time. So, as we get them onboarded in some significant quantities will be able to bring them online. We're gonna bring them online as quickly as we can as far as hotline goes. I can't say with absolute certainty, but I definitely say measured in weeks lower number of weeks, as far as getting them on and it might be within phase one some of those resources might be phased as well because we can't just go to the store and grab a bunch off the shelf and put them on right those in quite work that way so we would love to get the first sub phase if you will face one launch ASAP and more + +Cheng Wang: information will be available as soon as we get that but I don't really have too much to share at this point in time too much concrete. So sorry, I can't directly answer that but What we want to get these things on online and we want to showcase or that continue to Showcase rather a caution networks capabilities, right? We've already demonstrated the entire animal stack right from inference to fine-tuning to training every other, deep in projects out there. As you know said they can do one of the other but no ones actually proven anything in the wild other than us. So we'll continue to work on that. Yeah, Alani I go for it go first. + +00:10:00 + +Alani Kuye: Here. hi Cheng. and part of me. I'm not as informed on this year. or not, a 100s are they? across owned overclock own provider owned data center owned who actually is the custodian of the infrastructure + +Cheng Wang: and Great question. So who physically owns the hardware will be the data center. The actual machines themselves will be data centers and the data centers themselves will become providers on a caution Network for putting their Hardware onto the network as far as who's going to manage the providers for data centers who are comfortable managing it themselves. They will do so for those who are not comfortable managing themselves the cash 14 and ocl core team will work with people in the community as well as using internal resources to manage those providers. as far as not the I guess custodian might be a way to look at it right at the administrator of those resources as So there's one path. + +Cheng Wang: Data center will be the owner of the resources. They will either manage it themselves as a provider or Outsource the provider management to ocl core team VZ like the community right in some way shape or form in that way. then so that's how those resources be put on to the network. + +Alani Kuye: So from a tax perspective who gets the carpets and who gets the Opex. If I'm gonna depreciate that over four years for example, right you sir,… + +Cheng Wang: So yeah. + +Alani Kuye: I'm going with it, right. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, so the benefit the capex depreciation will definitely come out of the data center. so let's say I am data center, AI machines.com, right? And I have a bunch of a 100s or H 100s and I decide to sign an agreement with ocl to put these resources on the caution Network. So then at that point, it's simply a commercial agreement from the data Center's perspective. That's all it is. Right. They get paid their money for putting resources on to network and that's all gravy there and thats not That's simply just a very plain commercial agreement between overcog collabs and a data center or several data centers. And so the data center in this case will operate normally would they incur their Opex right and their capex? It's all baked into whatever they charge overclock labs and the kind of Comm. + +Cheng Wang: Right over a year or if it's on demand and other whatever the scheme is, right the duration is that's all baked into the price. So they take their capex depreciation on those chips. And obviously they incur the Outbacks of it as well as far as but the other operation side the only nuances in terms of Provider management for the sake in the instance where caution Network core team manages the provider right? That's where the operational cost will come out of the provider incentive pool, right? Because there is some Elementary. So for example, there's a Community member. Let's just say who manages a provider or set up providers? They would have to be paid for their work right? So that there's of the pool. + +Alani Kuye: Okay, I was just trying to get a better and thanks to clarifying that because I was thinking if I 100 K and it costs 120 for your depreciation plug the economics, cognit on the books and either way I get it back somehow right? Someone's gonna you put the taxes I can offset that. + +Cheng Wang: exactly + +Alani Kuye: From an accountant. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah,… + +Alani Kuye: Alright. Thanks. + +Cheng Wang: totally. So if you get a hundred dollar chip, Let's just say and the lifetime value of it is let's say five years and do linear depreciation. You can write off 20 bucks out of the hundred per year for five years. And offset, whatever your income is right in those five years with that particular thing and then whatever your Optics is, obviously that takes your bottom line down as and then whatever revenue is your Revenue so that all go against your state at Revenue there so for data centers, in this case. they're only revenue is directly going to be the contract that they get paid on and so in the event, this is something really interesting too. I'm not sure if we were able to put that in discussions, I think we might have which is + +Cheng Wang: Data center for gives sign data center science contract with ocl bring resources on Kosh Network right save those resources are $100 right costs those overclock Labs $100, but that's been funded by the community pool that passes then to the data center that agreement is tied off all clear then from the tenants perspective, right? They're going to use resources on the network that is managed by who Clash Network, Minister administrator, shall we call it and those revenues that flow through ultimately + +00:15:00 + +Cheng Wang: Where the zacho to we're going to all the excess net of paying expenses. I think this is what we talked about. We'll go back into the community pool. So if we buy resources in the community pool for a hundred dollars, right and obviously we're going to ensure that the prices are highly competitive and not overtuned right but having said that once the inflows come in net of whatever the expense are. Let's say, Alani is managing a provider and he gets paid, five percent out of this whatever is coming through. I'm just throwing out random numbers right then 95% of those revenues would go ocl a cautionary core team that manages provider will be putting that at the end of the program back into the community pool. So it'll be this pretty virtuous cycle where the community pool will be ultimately refilled by usage. Yeah anytime. + +Alani Kuye: Pretty solid. Thank you. + +Cheng Wang: B's had two questions as the PPA elected by Syrian receive a salary at our parent did that I don't think that PPA receives. A salary per se like so we're gonna talk through it on the steering committee. the ask there might be some consideration for administering the program. Like I said before as far as costs go those haven't been really super clearly defined. for one thing as far as who is the PPA I think + +Cheng Wang: What is it provider program in administrator as we're calling too many acronyms here. I think that administrator I personally would nominate ocl because we have the resources and Personnel to do it and we've always been extremely transparent to the community there. So that's the number one. So, yeah, in terms of costs, they're likely will be something but likely if ocls elected as the primary administrator, we likely would not take anything as far as a fee goes because that's just kind of cost of doing business for us. Number two, there's transparency reporting requirements. They're actually how regularly I'm too apologies already. No, so we don't know what the Cadence ought to be. You can definitely expect them regularly inconsistently. It won't be regularly every six months right be something like that, but we just don't know exactly what the Cadence is because we don't know as far as reporting how the date is gonna be aggre. + +Cheng Wang: how long it's going to take us to Crunch that information put it into something that's shareable but suffice to say I think you can believe and it don't take my word for it. I just look at all the community governance proposals. We've submitted in the past and all the reports that Scott Huey here has been at the helm of and pushing those opposite Community as far as putting money back into the community pool as far as access funds go number one number two showing, all the reporting what was called Google. + +Cheng Wang: Data Studio things called looker studio now so all those reports are out there and shared with the community to view and we do Endeavor to do the same thing here. Thank you Scott for sharing that so something like that. You can expect something like this and obviously if there are questions and things like that, we'll post updates because this is such a huge thing will likely post updates maybe and GitHub discussions should there be enough for it at the very least. We'll be talking about it on seeing economics it provider, across a whole bunch of things and working groups as well because this is the biggest program launch today and they're gonna be a lot of questions and a lot of curious mind. So we'll definitely share the data very very ask consistent as we can but also not So frequently, let's just say daily or weekly that it kills us on the administrative side,… + +Scott Hewitson: Right. Yeah,… + +Cheng Wang: Because we do have a lot of things are juggling. Yes, Scott. + +Scott Hewitson: so I think just to add to those two questions from BS the PPA if any work is coming from overclock. We're not going to be taking money for effort. if there's other folks in the community that need to help there that can help out then that would probably make more sense because people need to be compensated overclock Labs. we have our own payroll we have our own thing. So we're not using Community funds to pay that and then the reporting side I dropped in this dashboard from events. my view on this is kind of as things start coming in and that's when we'll get the information out. So yeah, I don't know if it's a quarterly probably is, I can count on that for sure just because + +00:20:00 + +Scott Hewitson: we should be doing that but really, the second I learn about an expense or it's realized or whatever I'll put it up and hopefully just have it running. So there's a lot of transparency behind it. everything in the community pool it's the community pool. So it's kind of like a public programs like governments. It's like we should be showing what we're spending money on and how that's growing the network. So hope that helps add some flavor. + +Cheng Wang: Up Bravo. Thank you Scott. it perfectly said + +Scott Hewitson: awesome Does anyone else have any questions or concerns related to provider incentives prop 246? + +Scott Hewitson: I'll take that as a no if you do if you think of something or you don't want to talk about it here feel free to drop in Discord and we'll be sure to get you a good response. At this time, I'd like to Alani. What's up? + +Alani Kuye: Yeah, just very minor commentary, thank you guys for all the work you've been doing. I also just want to emphasize that it's important for people to read. these proposals in their entirety before quantificating I think oftentimes It's very concerning when people just read four or five lines without really comprehensively understanding. What a proposal is about and just firing off a grenade and opinion basically, so I think we should really spend more time within these things and really understanding it. So we have literacy around contacts and where it's going because we want to be careful. We don't get so bogged down and tactical mindset and not meet the overall strategic objective. That's just import from my side. + +Scott Hewitson: I think that's a great Point Alani. I mean we live in a world where everyone reads headlines and makes their decisions off of that. So, I mean, it's easier said than done but for areas where there's pontification or grievances or I think we've been able to do a good job to alleviate any concerns or at least address them and explain, An altering point of view,… + +Alani Kuye: No. + +Scott Hewitson: so I agree with that 100% + +Scott Hewitson: awesome + +Scott Hewitson: We still have quite a bit of time. So if there's anything you want to discuss any ideas you have anything related to Sig economics or anything that's growing the network the floor is yours if you want it. + +Cheng Wang: I did have one quick one if I can shoe horn myself in there for No,… + +Scott Hewitson: I suppose. + +Cheng Wang: so I will not be seating my time someone else now in this case. I think the other big thing is we put in to get up discussion to wanted to give a little bit Time air time for the provider incentives want to marinate a little bit. But one thing we did want to and the pain of transparency is for the continu. + +Cheng Wang: Of cloud most right and they're continued contribution to overclock Labs. I put up a discussion there just to keep things on total up and up and that we are extending our relation Cloud notes because the team is great and obviously they've worked for years. Now. I'm within a caution Network in a fantastic fashion. So we're continuing that for at least another 12 months hopefully more but the slated agreement right now is for 12 months and we're repurposing the funds from the original funding of the six months and as well as the cloud most acquisition there is some access funds left over to support that and I think there was one set of questions from ZJ, which is he has some questions. Will it be using you denominated payments as far as what the expectation the Costco it's kind of very little bit based on hours worked and stuff like that, but it'll be slightly above what the + +Cheng Wang: I'm run rate was for the first six months. That's number one and number two the funds vest over the next one. So it'll just be monthly payments. So it wouldn't be a whole big shot all up front with the acquisition that vests over time. It'll Simply Be work that's been done. it'll be like a contract So a salary if you will continue to work being done and I'll be paid out over time on a monthly basis and that'll be denominated. Whatever the Says at the time of payment we snap it there and that's historically how we've done it. + +00:25:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Awesome. Thanks for covering that a little bit + +Scott Hewitson: is there anybody else that wants to bring up anything can be related discussions proposals any ideas? Yeah. Leave it open for a minute. + +Scott Hewitson: No takers this time because Andrew G's not here to ask me five questions to keep me honest. I love that guy. No, I mean last call was I think was an hour and 20 minutes. We're at 30 minutes now. So, I think a lot of stuff got hashed out in the last call. If I think we can wrap up at this time. Unless anyone has any last things they want to say and if you do have any, comments concerns questions, whatever you want. Feel free to drop them in Sig economics and Discord. I checked that very regularly and try to be very responsive there. so with that, I think we're going to end the call and we'll see y'all next month and + +Alani Kuye: All right. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: alrighty + +Cheng Wang: Thank you everyone. Thanks Alani good to see you. Yeah, right. + +Zach Horn: thanks guys take + +Meeting ended after 00:26:37 👋 diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md b/sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f08adc1f --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/014-2024-03-06.md @@ -0,0 +1,309 @@ +--- +title: "Economics SIG Meeting #14" +key: "sig-economics-meeting-14" +date: 2024-03-06T18:00:00Z +contributors: + +- Adam Wozney +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- B S +- Cheng Wang +- Moss Business +- Robert Del Rey +- Rodrigo Ronchin +- Scott Hewitson + +--- + + +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #14 + +## Agenda + +* Updates since last monthly sig-economics meeting. +* Updates on provider incentives. +* Open up to community for ideas or concerns. + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://l7relb4v4vhxhw4shqui4iyoyyeqdt6ogwpx2thybmneridemfnq.arweave.net/X-JFh5XlT3PbkjwojiMOxgkBz841n31M-AsaSKBkYVs) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants + +- Adam Wozney +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- B S +- Cheng Wang +- Moss Business +- Robert Del Rey +- Rodrigo Ronchin +- Scott Hewitson + +## Notes + +**Introduction and Updates** +- Scott initiated the meeting, gave a recap of meeting #13 and any outstanding items in discussions or on-chain items related to sig-economics. + +**Discussion on Provider Incentives** +- Cheng Wang provided an update on the Provider Incentives Program (PIP) since it has passed on-chain governance and funds have already been used to secure contracts. +- As of the time of this meeting new resources such as 4090s and H100s have come on the network for available use. +- Andrew asked if these resources are already being leased or if there are use cases that are coming on to the network soon to use them. Cheng responded by saying that there are multiple tenants that the core team has been talking to and expects the providers to fill up. +- Andrew asked for further clarification on whether we are incentivizing resources while they are being used or just to have them up. Cheng responded by calling out that these new providers are signed contracts so they will be up but obviously don't want them running empty. Any funds they make will also be sent to the community pool. + +**Other Discussions** +- Moss Business, a small content creator, asked about security issues related to the network or if there were some SIGs on security. Cheng suggested going to [sig-providers](https://github.com/akash-network/community/tree/main/sig-providers) as some of the questions that Moss Business asked are being worked on there. +- Andrew asked where we are in AKT 2.0 and what still needs to be done. Scott responded by calling out the [AKT Token Page](https://akash.network/token/) that shows the main features being: + - Take and Make Fees - Live + - Stable Payments and Settlement - Live + - Incentive Distribution Pool - Not live but make/take fees are currently going to the Community Pool + - Provider Subsidies - In progress with PIP + - Public Goods Fund - Not implemented but Community Pool has been the placeholder and where contributors can seek funds to grow the network. +- Andrew brought up Io.net raising $30 million to compete, how is the team thinking about this? The core team's stance is that the pie is large enough for many players and competition is welcomed and good for the space at large. + + +### Action Items +- All are welcome to contribute! Anyone who wants to contribute please visit sig-economics in the [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/akash) + +## Transcript +This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created. + +Scott Hewitson: All right, all today's call. This is the cig economics monthly call for March. We've had quite a few of these I will call out that I did not get the notes up from the last call. So that's squarely on me. We've had a ton of things going on. So I will make sure to get that done shortly after this along with these notes, but that is on me and my bed, so kind of kicking things off. I was looking at proposals that have passed since the last call we had the provider incentive pilot, which we talked about. It was actually on chain while we had this last call which tasks and then also kudos to the folks doing the developer onboarding proposal via zealing that passed as well. So excited to see what comes of that. + +Scott Hewitson: And from discussions there wasn't anything major that I saw and then from the Discord chat. It's not too Lively. But sometimes we get a questions a few answers. I think today we can kind of talk about obviously the provider incentives program and where we're at with that since the proposal is passed and I'll pass that over to Cheng in a minute and then as always we can open it up to community members if you have Any questions concerns or just want to jump on your soapbox and talk about economics. So with that Cheng if you don't mind you could give us a little. + +Scott Hewitson: quick recap with where we're at with the PIP phase one phase one is the only one that went on chain and passed so we can just talk to that or if anyone has questions about the other phases we can talk about that as well. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I'll go through and talk about phase one real quick and touch on the others and we can open up for discussion from there. phase one past resoundingly and of course it's been great since then, prices have appreciated thus far the market I think is responded the economics environment I think is improving. So we'll see, it's going really well. We have thus far engaged to Providers one and that's already existing one. So we work with both of these before as soon as the information is finalized. We'll of course communicated to everyone publicly but we are throws of getting those resources signed and spun up and I think it's now coming on starting to come online. I think yesterday a bunch of h100 came online. So I don't know if anyone saw that the latest and is located in Quebec and Canada, and so we're starting to get all those fun up. So in terms of the resources that we + +Cheng Wang: Be targeted based on the discussions there a 100s a6000 and 40 80s or 40 90s. Excuse me. We are getting all those spun them is just gonna take a little bit of time to nail all those things down. and really looking forward to it. I think the resources are all we currently in terms of pace as far as the allocation the budget goes for phase one we spend about I would say 60% year marked about committed committed about 60% of the phase one budget ready to these resources some have come online some are in the process of coming online. And so there's still a little bit of ways to go as far as finding the additional resources that we want to Target. So that's phase one. + +Cheng Wang: Phase two is still in design the stuff around that we were talking about it internally in amongst according yesterday the composition of that and the execution and especially operation of it it's gonna be challenging for sure because it's not on chain deck stuff right where we're doing it fairly manually to start. So there's that and then phase three obviously will be a little bit more kin to phase one. So low on the operational load and just gonna be more so on the back end work that the core team has been doing + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you for that update with Pip. Yeah, does anyone have any questions or concerns or anything else? They'd like to know about provider incentives Andrew. There we go. I got my man and asking questions. + +Cheng Wang: a price of PR + +Scott Hewitson: He's here to keep us all honest,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Not just a quick question and… + +Scott Hewitson: and I love it. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: maybe I missed it somewhere on the previous six for this h100 so I saw them on the stats do we have clients to use them? do we have some will use cases that are gonna on board and we will see that they are already released or something that + +00:05:00 + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, so the resource I think just came online yesterday. And so we do have some organizations that are looking to use them already. And so we're gonna get that spun up. That's number one. And number two is we have some Partners who I don't want to necessarily announce you get in and I say Partners likely but we're working with a couple of companies on the kind of client side who are developing toolkits themselves to enable fashion appointment and all that kind of stuff, right? And so + +Cheng Wang: They're integrating Akash as we speak and we'll make a caution Network an option for people who are using, what they're building on top of just the raw machines themselves, And so once that comes online, we should see a lot of these things fill up. So as far as in my head what I know, I think they're at least two to four two for sure and probably four if not five very high potential use cases for these machines. We definitely won't have them up online running, vacant right? Because we haven't really pushed it out. And so once Step One have these resources set to connect them with the folks who we know already working on connecting them. And so that's really in progress step three is work on the partners where I guess + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, Partners those just say who need these resources and continue develop them so they can use them and the final bit would be to not the final bit. But the next thing is advertise, right really promote this as soon as we know the resources are stable and tested up online running all that kind of good stuff. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Some got it. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Does anyone have any other questions regards to the pit or one phase two? Yeah, we got some background chatter. There's a TV and Cheng's background. + +Scott Hewitson: awesome Yeah, I mean I don't know if we have a ton to talk about on this call. I did want to call out a few folks. I see b s I believe you've come out on a couple of these calls and then I see moss business so welcome to you folks, if you want to introduce yourself feel free. If not, also that's fine. And we're always looking to having people join these calls, we get a ton of great ideas out of these calls from coming from wherever so yeah Andrew, what's up? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: If this one more question to clarify, so if I understand correctly, we are incentivizing the providers when their gpus got least right not when they just go on the market. + +Cheng Wang: no, so for phase one because for phase one the way we're doing it is we go to the providers for these high-end resources and we sign long contracts with them and then pay them for it. So in this particular instance, we cannot just say hey put these resources on a caution and we'll pay you if there's usage we have to commit to it and it's just one of those things where it's a chicken and egg challenge, right? We have to have those resources online in order to continue to attract the use cases that come on a caution Network and grow the network. So that directly answers your question there. And so the other part what that means is because they are already being paid. + +Cheng Wang: Contract right? So then whatever that gets generated to those particular wallets, as far as least Revenue that will cycle back and go back towards the community pool. So it's kind of like all this virtuous cycle, So let's just say I'm a data center, I sign a contract with overclock Labs because we have to be the entity to face off against someone to sign a contract right for hundred thousand dollars for whatever resources right? Overclock Labs through the community pool pays me a hundred thousand. I'm good. I don't care what happens you can use it you cannot use it when those resources get used. It goes into a wallet that ultimately we'll require those providers to send the funds back to us and it's all on chain and public and auditable so they can't really, do anything squarely and get away with it. So once those funds come back into the wallets ultimately at the end of everything will aggregate at do all the accounting and the reporting to show the community. Hey, here's what the usage was Etc. And then the + +Cheng Wang: access will be of course sent back to the community pool. So that's for phase one phase two will be a little bit different in that. Yeah face-to phase two be a little bit different because it'll be more free for all and open to everyone in the community who has, resources that meet the requirements and so they'll be essentially the same thing. They'll be paid for those resources and uptime right as functions of how we calculate and then + +00:10:00 + +Cheng Wang: For that. I think the guidance will be since you're getting provider incentive to just have these resources online, you're essentially being paid for it anywhere regardless of usage. There will be I think requirements for prices. So you can't essentially egregiously double dip, So let's say the market can bear four dollars per hour. We would likely have that price push down, right if you're already getting some sort of compensation from the pool, but we were so ironing that out in detail. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, and go ahead and Moss business. + +Moss Business: Hey, can you hear me? Okay. Awesome. + +Scott Hewitson: Yep can hear you good? + +Cheng Wang: on the clear + +Moss Business: I'm a small content creator. So I just have kind of a discovery question. Mostly interested in are there any sigs where a discussion around security like Security in the Akash Network would be discussed appropriate. + +Cheng Wang: Security in what sense from a deployment sense from a blockchain side of things deployment side of things. + +Moss Business: Correct. Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: Yes, so I would say Sig providers might be where you want to go for that. So when you say security it's kind of like if I deploy something is my deployment secure is the provider trustworthy and all those kind of things So I think for that particular thing, we have one of the first features we started working on has been one provider thanks to you for dropping us. So the auditing right the ability for providers themselves to audit workloads that are running on their machines so that They can then adhere to their own local jurisdictions and requirements. Whatever those are right. So for example, if someone comes in and deploys. + +Cheng Wang: I don't know if Kim Jong-un wants that deploy some workload on to Andrew's machine and Andrew's beholden by law to prohibit those types of things as a provider. He should be able to crawl through and see what's actually running and secure himself, right? that's one part. Another part is then how much can the provider see or cannot see that's another component of it and a final part of it is on So this is from the tenant side if I deploy an image and that image is open and public right? I'm less likely to want to push forward. + +Cheng Wang: Push excuse me proprietary stuff that I've worked on because I don't want someone to just steal my secret sauce, And so provide then Secrets right is another important thing. how can I as a tenant secure my Docker image so that someone can't just easily go in and look at what I'm deploying. So those are all things that are being worked on. If you look at in our community board that Huey just drop there and you click into projects like the product engineering roadmap in there. You'll be able to see the items that I just talked about in great detail and all the kind of discussion history and development history associated with each + +Moss Business: Thanks so much. That's a exact conversation that I was interested in was the tenant security securing a Docker and the ability per provider to look inside of the container and stuff like that. So I'll definitely take that combo to the sake the providers say that you mentioned. + +Cheng Wang: For sure, and then follow along in me and the GitHub it's all open. So if you want to look like in history the development Pace what's been done? What hasn't been done what's on whom that stuff should all be fairly transparent there. If not, just hit us up in one of the things we're working groups. And Community will be more than happy to talk about it. And if you have a question just drop into one of those groups in Discord paying the question and off you go. + +Moss Business: Thank you so much. + +Cheng Wang: Pleasure. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you for that question Moss business and thank you for joining the calls. when I was at East Denver I get a lot of questions right all these projects doing kind of the same thing as you guys what sets you apart and I truly believe that something that sets us apart is this open framework where everything is being built in the open? Everyone can verify everything everyone can jump into any call and see what we're talking about? it's pretty awesome. And if you've been in crypto for a while, everything's open source, and the folks that go down that route end up having success where some of the closed systems may not have as much. So I just want to add that little tidbit because it was something fresh at East Denver. I was just there last week. But yeah. so + +00:15:00 + +Cheng Wang: said + +Scott Hewitson: what that does anyone else have any other questions? I mean we can move along from the Pips stuff. Does anyone have any questions just regarding anything or any ideas or things that you might want to see moving forward chain? + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, it's not Andrew No, so I think the one thing that I want I wanted to exactly what you mentioned regarding what you've observed in East Denver and everything. You said regarding our open framework. I want to emphasize to this group and everyone can do their parts and smaller big however, it is right is there's there as this space in right continues to develop there will be and there are and have been a lot of attempted copy cats where people who want to go into the space because that sector is hot. It's kind of like defiles hot. + +Cheng Wang: through the nose, there's so many networks out there. I don't even care anymore with some stuff like I use what I use. I know what I know. I really don't care about the other stuff. It's just all kind of like the regurgitation of the same idea over and over again having said that there will also be a lot of potential projects and projects that come out that are Very vague not transparent we'll make claims and not back them up all that kind of stuff. Right? And for here at Akash, everything is open. We can't hide behind b s right if it's out there it's out there and we have to just kind of deal with whatever the actual realities of it are. So I think for us as a community everyone here if you can do one thing that'll be incredibly helpful is if we can all do our part in this spelling. + +Cheng Wang: False information misinformation that's being spread about a cost potentially out there wherever Twitter Etc where people say this versus the other and just to let you guys know in our conversations with even funds right who are interested in taking a position on a caution and stuff like that. They come to the core team and ask questions. Hey, how do you differentiate between yourself and project XY project Z whatever it is, right and I have to tell you. + +Cheng Wang: The level of sophistication of research from these funds oftentimes. I would say 80 to 90% of the time is pretty poor. if I were a professor grading these assignments, I would probably give them a d to be kind like they should be able to distinguish these things and I think part of the challenges the information isn't readily necessarily out there as loudly and as frequently as we can hope so, I want to definitely ask everyone whenever you can have the opportunity to say something like hey, here's some information.'s whatever here's what I see, back it up with facts and just continue to push that out there and not get into the kind of the Tit for top on vague. Yes, right. So That's the PSA I have. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you for that ng. Yeah, as you dropping a cheeky note that we can't hide behind you b s your name is BS so, said that throw that out there. Does anyone else have any ideas or concerns or comments in regards to get economics or the token or how things are running? Yes, that's right. + +Scott Hewitson: doesn't look like we have any there is. Go for it. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, That's me. I've missed you. So let's meet you all so let's talk. + +Scott Hewitson: All right. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, just a question. you do fraction to memory. Where are we right now with the attached economics 2.0? + +Scott Hewitson: 2.0. Let's see. We've done let me just pull this up real quick. did + +Scott Hewitson: so we got take rates implemented right we've got + +Scott Hewitson: I'm just pulling up everything on this. So the + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Take her and make her face, right? Okay, and + +Scott Hewitson: Yes, those are not flowing to stakers yet that all flows to the community pool. So, something that will need, there's the incentive distribution pool planned and that kind of is like the pool for everything. And then from there it goes out to public goods fun providers and is staking potentially burning and then community pool. So right now, In the interest of Simplicity, We've done those take rates to the community pool. Obviously the community pool has been the source of funding for a lot of great initiatives and + +00:20:00 + +Scott Hewitson: it really just is a bottleneck of engineering efforts. We've got a million things going on. So implementing all of this stuff from akt 2.0 is takes time and it kind of shuffles with importance, when we have something for an engineering task. That's the higher priority that gets pushed up probably simply because we're having success. from the economics side and being able to do everything that we need to do is but yeah, I mean there's a lot of things from it, I think. let me just pull up because I want to say the token page on the website has. + +Scott Hewitson: The five things so the main features make it take fees stable payment and settlement those both are live, the incentive distribution pool that is not provider subsidies kind of with this prop and in the public goods fund which is kind of like the community pool. So I'd say it's a Technically two out of five live, but you could probably say a half from some of the other so maybe two and a half to three out of five complete and we're effectively, working most of them are complete but there's some engineering efforts that we that go behind Those modules of creating the different pools and all that other stuff. I hope that that helps any of those little bit of a ramble as I was going back and forth through resources. + +Cheng Wang: That was great I think one thing that I would love to add to that is. + +Cheng Wang: Of the primary features that contribute most to akt 2.0 those have been done. Right? So the take fee being the primary element of it that in and of itself I think is the biggest economics to be frank like the incentive distribution pool and the sub pools. I suppose below that those are all kind of counting stuff like operational things. That'll be nice to segregate going forward when things can be more tidally organized by potential by group and use case. So that's kind of a nice to have at this very moment in time as the community pool and fun continues to grow that will become more important later on because we don't want to have one big bag of money in the community pool slashing around then the mandates aren't that clear Etc though? We've I think work really hard in terms of when proposals the sequ. + +Cheng Wang: Of getting things up on GitHub discussion answering questions and then on chain Etc writing all these things out. I think we've been really good at that. So that's what I want to say. what we've done so far are the most important things that enable economics 2.0 to start running and that has been done the next big things. I think from a feature and usability perspective is some of the behind the scenes stuff then that will make stable payments more useful because right now all the IVC Channel jumping crap, it just makes USC not as usable user friendly as we wanted to be. So that's I think one thing that's currently on the back burner and as he Illustrated when we have enough engineering band with will be tackling that as well. So yeah, and then in terms of the priorities mentioned previously the secret stuff like provider features Discovery, that's another thing that was just pushed out that is a huge blocker that we needed to on unblock in order to have phase two of the pit be possible right because we need to be able to + +Cheng Wang: Providers and say what resources have you brought on and be able to see all that stuff in a database and record and all that good stuff. but yeah, I think the progress there as far as the organization of the IDP and accounts a little bit definitely lower priority because it's just organization at that point and the big thing after that is just again here we mentioned distributions of stakers. that's going to be a big piece. But as both I think we can cross that bridge once usage climbs up, Quite significantly, right because I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg at this point as far as usage on the network goes. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah to add to that having the take fees flow to the stakers and validators. I think from a retail perspective that's something that people want that we don't have implemented at the moment but to Cheng's point, There's good Network spend but until it's a point where it's significant. It's like all right, I got my hundredth of a cent, from the take fees for staking a bunch of akt, it's not gonna be as a people aren't going to be like, wow, this is awesome until there is significant network activity Network spend. + +00:25:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. Got it. Thanks. + +Scott Hewitson: first Alrighty, does anyone have any other questions or concern Has anyone want to bring up anything Vlogs? Thanks for jumping in. I don't know if you want to throw any words of wisdom or anything. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, I still have one concern. I want to ask chance basically let's See it this way on this bull run. + +Scott Hewitson: Okay. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Let's say akt is pumping right? We're not talking about much on the exact prices, But let's say eight ten bucks 15 whatever. Yeah, and it turns from a security talking right for the network the more office speculative talking and let's say we have lots of unsticking or unbonding and let's say our network has just 30% or 20% in staking. because right now we have 60 and before that we have 75. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Is why I was asking about the incentivize for the stakers because at the beginning everybody was like we have great APR and we need to stay because that's just like 380 tokens one. once it's just pumping up, right? But the market shift for example in two years and we will have to deal with with this, lots of tokens just freely looking around the success indexes and that stuff and that's what makes basically concerns me. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I think you… + +Cheng Wang: Gotcha. + +Scott Hewitson: it's important to note that there's a Min and Max inflation parameters and it's basically the amount that you're gonna get and from staking rewards is dependent on the amount state. So the less + +Scott Hewitson: staked there are the staking percentage is gonna be that they're all parameters that can be changed subject to governance and they have been changed with governance proposals. But in general, that in the cosmos ecosystem, the less tokens that are staked the town or balance to that is the staking APR goes up. So if you have everybody staked then it's those rewards of split between those that are stake when there's only three of us staked we're gonna get all of those rewards. So there is that counterbalance to come back that but I definitely understand your concern and some chains even they deal have, low staking percentages and low State bonded percentages and really high aprs and it still doesn't incentivize folks to stake. + +Scott Hewitson: So I think that's kind of on the whole network at large to be able to get to a point where we have that big network activity that big Network spend to where ideally, someday most of the rewards that you're getting are from Network spend versus just the inflationary rewards because that everything is in speculative without Revenue coming back from the chain and the network. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. Got + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Yeah, I would add to that is. + +Cheng Wang: Just as Huey said and I wouldn't necessarily like just zooming out a little bit. I wouldn't. + +Cheng Wang: Place too much stock in the micro right now from the day-to-day perspective, because right now the market is still trying to figure out where things are right is akt gonna continue to move one way or the other. I don't know the market will do what the market does and on top of that. There are also governance parameters. We can definitely toggle as well. Right? So the inflation Max and all those kind of things that are things that we can definitely toggle to ensure right to if staking rate Falls below certain perspective and point rather and it becomes an actual concern that is shared by, the core team in the community at large something that as a community everyone right can submit proposals to let's say bump inflation up such that, stakers get a little bit more return right on akt though. I would say if you're holding akt return has been pretty good as play not gonna lie. So the knobs right do exist for us to toggle these + +00:30:00 + +Cheng Wang: Particular things one thing I would have to say is finally on this point. If you look at even though bonded Ray has fallen from the 70 percentage to 60% ish the total value Bond, it has gone up significantly, So the economics S in context it's not just the wall percentage necessarily that matters. + +Scott Hewitson: security + +Cheng Wang: I would argue that by having 60% Bond date at this point in time. We're more secure now than we were at 75% simply because the value of network is grown so considerably so it's a lot harder to Do stuff. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, the cost to attack in raw numbers has gone up. + +Cheng Wang: for sure exactly it exactly + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Going agree on that. Okay. Thank you guys. + +Scott Hewitson: No, thank you. + +Cheng Wang: always good to voice us. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Alrighty, does anyone else have any last thoughts or comments or concerns? Hey,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, yeah, I do like one last question what direction for you? Let's go. Let's + +Scott Hewitson: We got some time if you got a couple it's all good. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: So the last news from Twitter ionet has raised 300 million to build the largest decentralized GPU Network in the world. And so the AI compute shortage, what's your thought on that? It's basically like GPU Marketplace and Solana. It's not like I'm advocating Savannah right now. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I mean so it was 30 million. Yeah, yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: I'm fully Akashi, I just have this. Yes. It's Because they give it to me and I was just wearing it today. Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, so no, they congratulations to their team. I think it was 30 million that there is but some prominent backers. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: I mean, everything we do and Greg is pretty outspoken about this. he says anyone who's In the same direction, building for the same long-term goal, it's competition let the protocols, the proof is in the pudding I guess so, it's not that it's a distraction or whatever, we're here to build and we're here to do our thing. if anything it's a validation that people are looking at this there's a need for this and people are putting money behind it. So if anything I think it's good news for Akash that other companies are raising to do what we are already doing. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I mean this is a way thing about it again zooming out a little bit. It's trillion dollar market. Let's just be frank. Right and so there's more than enough space for everyone to Palo Al around and so if let's just say you look at the actual true market leader in this space as far as the cloud space goes right and then GPU space if in AMD for example is no slouch and they're still kicking but even though Nvidia is dominating sucking most of the oxygen out of the room, If AWS despite their market dominance is your and gcp are still tremendous players in their own, So there's why I say that only to say the market is very big and it's ripe or people to come in and try to see what they can do and more attention on the space is always a good thing. What I would say is, we've historically shy away from intentionally avoid the language big is fast, whatever it is, right because it's all qualifiers and highly subjective stuff right and again, + +Cheng Wang: The best represent putting right and so we'll see and the market is big enough for many companies to thrive and it's just about getting product Market fit and getting adoption all this kind of stuff. So yeah, it's good to see the space growing. I would just say do your own research, open systems. all of our information is out there information on a lot of the other companies projects, excuse me. Just don't exist. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep, totally agree. + +Scott Hewitson: awesome + +Cheng Wang: and it's cute for them, too. I would just say, we're pretty serious a just saying. + +Scott Hewitson: There's Andrew have any other questions he'd like to ask. But awesome. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: No, I'm good. + +Scott Hewitson: Again, as always it's a pleasure to have these calls pleasure to hear everyone's thoughts. And yeah, I think we can wrap up and As was since he's here. We'll see all in the metaverse. + +00:35:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. you… + +Rodrigo Rochin: See you. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Bye. Thank. + +Scott Hewitson: Take care. wedding + +Robert Del Rey: You guys thanks. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: I guess. + +Robert Del Rey: Scott & Cheng. + +Cheng Wang: There on thank you. just + +Robert Del Rey: All right. + +Scott Hewitson: Have a good one. + +Meeting ended after 00:35:16 👋 From 1e5199f746fe4eebf094f1ba5cc0fe5b9cab3aa8 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Drinkwater Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:07:29 -0400 Subject: [PATCH 5/8] sig-design Update README.md add meeting date Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --- sig-design/README.md | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/sig-design/README.md b/sig-design/README.md index 59f5ccfc..c3c865e8 100644 --- a/sig-design/README.md +++ b/sig-design/README.md @@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ date: 2023-1-09T00:19:20-08:00 | #12| Wednesday, December 13, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/012-2023-12-13.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/012-2023-12-13.md#transcript) | [Link](https://une76rieq3cvbtrnjv3gxaw6kbxaay3tnzqsangya2lfe6ionpva.arweave.net/o0n_RQSGxVDOLU12a4LeUG4AY3NuYSA02AaWUnkOa-o) | #13| Wednesday, January 10, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/013-2024-01-10.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/013-2024-01-10.md#transcript) | [Link](https://zao4urnjuqb6ncx2vacwjuqiyqnucl2ifcfm33blijhw6v6owzla.arweave.net/yB3KRamkA-aK-qgFZNIIxBtBL0gois3sK0JPb1fOtlY) | #14| Wednesday, February 21st, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | -| #15| March, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | +| #15| March 13th, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #16| April, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #17| May, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #18| June, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | From f15234ea01340e9d2ffec31a9cb58500790d8d91 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:29:10 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 6/8] Create meeting notes for wg-zealy #7 (#470) * Create meeting notes for wg-zealy #7 Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * Update 006-2024-01-15.md add transcript and recording Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Signed-off-by: Drinkwater Co-authored-by: Drinkwater --- wg-zealy/meetings/006-2024-01-15.md | 374 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 374 insertions(+) create mode 100644 wg-zealy/meetings/006-2024-01-15.md diff --git a/wg-zealy/meetings/006-2024-01-15.md b/wg-zealy/meetings/006-2024-01-15.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..20822481 --- /dev/null +++ b/wg-zealy/meetings/006-2024-01-15.md @@ -0,0 +1,374 @@ +# Akash Network - Zealy Working Group (WG) - Meeting #7 + +## Agenda +- Recap of the pilot phase, including feedback sharing. +- Budget and Time Length for Zealy Initiative +- Discussion on the action plan, particularly focusing on mission frequency and rewards payout. +- Progress Updates + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Monday, January 15, 2024 +- Time: 11:30 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://pwxu73zd32wt2eg5bbao4apsgs6zso2bu4v4ixu2wyf7bv3dbvuq.arweave.net/fa9P7yPerT0Q3QhA7gHyNL2ZO0GnK8RemrYL8NdjDWk) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Benjamin B +- George Pro +- Robert Del Rey +- Scott Hewitson +- Ty Wright + +## Meeting Notes +### Progress Updates: +##### Robert Del Rey: +- Shared screen to showcase feedback, ensuring no sensitive information was disclosed. +- Received twelve responses over a two-week period. +- Notable comment from a non-technical participant expressing motivation to deploy on Akash. +- Emphasized the success of onboarding individuals into Zealy, shared the positive impact in Discord. +- Discussions about the missions during the week with Benjamin. +- Some feedback indicated a need for more detailed mission instructions, specifying testnet or mainnet deployment. +- Instead of creating missions from scratch, planning to provide guides on Akash processes. +- Each section of a guide will be treated as a mission, addressing clarity and expectations for participants. +- Emphasized the importance of learning from feedback to improve the mission structure. +- Mentioned the possibility of incorporating both beginner and advanced tasks into Zealy. +- Invited participants to share initial ideas or comments on the proposed mission restructuring. +- Mentioned the potential for more complex tasks in Zealy while maintaining beginner-friendly elements. + +### Monthly Sprints Proposal +##### Robert Del Rey: +- Suggestion to transition from a pilot to monthly sprints. +- Expresses belief in the success of the pilot and the potential for ongoing improvement. +- Envisioning monthly missions with continuous community engagement. +- Proposed ideas like introducing new missions, special Discord roles (Zealy quests, Zealy boss), and showcasing completed missions. +- Shared screenshots of submissions from the "Create your own website and host it on Akash" mission. +- Highlighted the significance of users successfully deploying websites on Akash. +- Demonstrated Discord screen to showcase participant submissions and engagement. + +### Budget and Time Length Discussion +##### Robert Del Rey: +- Transitioning to the next segment focusing on budget and time length for future campaigns. +- Discussing whether to propose a signaling proposal or directly seek funding through the community support proposal. +- Opened the floor for ideas and opinions from the group, considering their perspective on the initiative's progress. +- Asked about their feelings on starting from scratch, having one pilot, payout rewards, and discussing the future. +##### Ty Wright's Input: +- Acknowledged the success of the experiment in creating community initiatives. +- Shared thoughts on the program's design, which was initially a pilot with resources from the community support proposal. +- Discussed the concept of a micro grant program, focusing on smaller amounts for initiatives, potentially up to $2,000 USD in AKT. +- Proposed a discussion on the program's outcomes, cost for the entire year, and mission before seeking on-chain funding. +- Recognized the success of the Zealy pilot, suggesting that it could be a yearly program to bring new users to Akash. +- Encouraged discussion on whether another round of pilot testing is needed before proposing on-chain funding. +- Referenced the recently passed community budget and suggested further asynchronous discussions in Zealy chat. +- Emphasized the presence of enough evidence, case studies, and real-life examples from Zealy to support a discussion and plan for the year. + +### Next Steps: +- Robert expressed having enough data to create a proposal, including stats on rewards paid out, participant engagement, and completed missions. +- Suggested planning for sustaining the initiative for one year, potentially with a second plan for six months. +- Ty Wright supported the idea of moving forward with a proposal and encouraged discussing the budget and outcomes for the program over the entire year. +- Ty Wright proposed engaging in a GitHub discussion or talking to Hewitson and Ty Wright about potential funds for a secondary pilot. +- Ty Wright suggested a quick discussion offline between Benjamin and Robert to decide on numbers and details before engaging in broader discussions. +- Encouraged fast-tracking the process due to the existing case studies and successful pilot outcomes. +- Benjamin inquired about the possibility of utilizing January funds for a quick continuation of the pilot to maintain momentum. +- Benjamin expressed the need for planning details such as the number of people to include in the program. +- Ty acknowledged that Benjamin and Robert have demonstrated the ability to handle various aspects of the initiative, emphasizing the working group's ownership. +- Benjamin suggested involving the working group in planning to ensure agreement on essential details. +- Acknowledged the need for collective agreement among those actively involved and interested in the initiative. +- Concluded with the idea that everyone actively interested in the initiative should have a say in determining fair numbers and statistics for the program. + +### Plan Moving Forward: +- Ty Wright suggested taking a week to devise a comprehensive plan covering management costs, rewards amounts, desired outcomes, etc. +- Proposed presenting the plan either as a draft or in a document format, whichever is easiest for the team. +- Scheduled a working group Zealy meeting for the following Monday to iron out details on the record before initiating GitHub discussions. +- Emphasized the importance of including clear breakdowns of management costs and other details in the GitHub discussions. +- Benjamin confirmed the clarity of the plan, suggesting ironing out details offline before discussing them in the next meeting. +- Opened the floor for suggestions or adjustments to variables such as the number of personnel needed and the amount of rewards. +- Ty Wright expressed the importance of starting from a place where the team feels comfortable and appreciated, rather than imposing arbitrary numbers. +### Rewards Payout Overview: +##### Robert Del Rey: +- Exporting data from Zealy provides basic information in an Excel file. +- Data includes usernames, addresses, and mission completion details. +- Noted the simplicity of the process but discovered a challenge during the second pilot extension. +#### Challenge Encountered +- Participants from the first pilot had existing point balances when the second pilot started. +- Points earned in the second pilot needed to be matched with the existing balances for accurate reward calculation. +- Run a separate export and matched the data to calculate differences between the first and second pilots. +- Determined points for winners who participated in both pilots to avoid overpayment. +- Acknowledged the complexity and expressed plans to improve the reward determination process. +- Proposed structuring missions so that only the last mission provides rewards, simplifying calculations. +- Suggested limiting mission completion to once a month for easier reporting and winner determination. +#### Current Status: +- Confirmed readiness to pay out rewards, acknowledging the need for improvements in future calculations. +- Robert expressed the intention to proceed with reward payouts and announced a brief announcement regarding gathering addresses from participants. +- Raised the question of whether to ask participants for addresses again or confirm existing ones before sending out rewards +- Benjamin suggested allowing participants to change their addresses if needed by DMing before payouts, but otherwise, proceeds should be sent to their provided addresses. +### Rodrigo's Remarks: +- Rodrigo congratulated Robert and Benjamin for their leadership in taking over the Zealy program. +- Initially skeptical due to past experiences with other programs, Rodrigo acknowledged the success and user growth achieved through Zealy. +- Commended Robert and Benjamin for effectively leading the initiative and gaining users. +- Supported the idea of going on-chain and securing funding for the entire year, expressing confidence in the effectiveness of the Zealy program. +- Offered assistance and expressed readiness to help in any capacity to ensure the continued success of Zealy. +- Robert recognized the support from Rodrigo and the entire community in contributing to the success of the Zealy program. +### Remainder of Funds: +- Benjamin inquired about the handling of the remainder of the funds and proposed drafting a proposal for their usage. +- Ty Wright provided two options: either use the funds for new missions or return them for a clean break while planning next steps. +- Suggested discussing further with Hewitson and Ty Wright regarding the decision and ensuring transparency in handling the funds. + +### Other matters discussed +#### Scheduling Next Meeting: +- Ty Wright proposed scheduling the next Zealy meeting for either 9:00 AM or 9:30 AM Eastern time next Monday. +- Robert confirmed the availability of both times and expressed gratitude for the flexibility in scheduling. +- Decision was made to hold the meeting at 9:30 AM Eastern time to accommodate participants' time zones better, especially for Hewitson. +- Robert confirmed the chosen time for the next meeting and expressed gratitude. +- Ty Wright expressed appreciation to everyone, indicating the meeting's conclusion. +## Action items +- Ongoing efforts to enhance mission details and instructions based on feedback. +- Benjamin and Robert to work on the proposal details, including cost analysis and program goals. +- Ty Wright and Hewitson to provide guidance on the budget and funding options. +- Group to initiate GitHub discussions for the Zealy program +- Group to Schedule a working group Zealy meeting for the following Monday to discuss and finalize details on the record before initiating GitHub discussions. + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Robert Del Rey: All right, and happy Monday everybody. Welcome to the silly working group called This is the first one we have on 2024. We are almost three weeks in 2020 24 things are going fast. But yeah. Let's make it happen. So as I was saying earlier. I want to discuss two segments. I want to divide this whole into segments unless you want to add anything else to the agenda. But these are the topics. I'd like to go over in today's call. the pilot we had the second phase we ended and we also share a feedbacks form. I'd like to go over some of the feedbacks. That is 10 just that can be in the recording and you can see the updates in the future. + +Robert Del Rey: Also, I'm gonna discuss the action plan that we have for the action plan that Benji and I discussed this week about how the missions are going to look from now on. This includes the amount of missions and the frequency that we're going to release missions. Lastly the rewards payout we were doing the calculations and yeah, we're almost ready to pay out the rewards. We're gonna discuss that in a sec. And the next segment it's gonna be about budget and time length for the Sealy initiative just for next campaigns determine if we want to do this for three times in the year for times we want to do this every month. That is the other segment about so that we can prepare better. + +Robert Del Rey: To release this to the broader Community as far as proposal goes and discussion goals. I like to go over those topics. So yeah. If you guys have another topic that we can add to the agenda now will be a great time to drop it or you can also drop it in the chat below. I will give you one to two seconds, right? + +Robert Del Rey: Alrighty. Let me bring up my notes. I will also go ahead and share the screen real quickly. So you can see some of the feedbacks there is no personal or sensitive info share in this form. So I will go ahead and share the screen. having said that all right. So yeah, we got five responses In a two weeks period which I find cool. We have a few comments as you can see one of the question is what were your key takeaways from this event. And for example, this comment says I'm a very thick not a very technical person but this event encouraged me to actually try to deploy various things on a cache. + +Robert Del Rey: Learning a few things in the process and definitely will use a cash if I ever need to run some workload in the future. I'm considering for a website llllms mbpns. I love this comment is crazy because the intention we initially had and Benji. It's a witness you Tyler our witness, right? The mission we had was onboarding people into Sealy and I believe this feedback. it's a great one. I even share it in the Discord. if you go below we have other comments we have and additional feedbacks on the missions and this one we're gonna have more details actually Benjamin. I went over during this week why we were chatting about the missions and one key comment. + +Robert Del Rey: Is the missions can be more detailed, some of them had clear instructions, but it wasn't clear what we were expecting some had clear so we're not clear if we were gonna be on test net our main net if I gonna deploy these forever. I have to run this forever or if I just need to run this take a screenshot and then submit the screenshot right? We'll learn a lot in the process. So one of the solutions benjamini came up with instead of coming out with missions out of our minds. Is that we're gonna get guides about how to do certain process on a cache. + +Robert Del Rey: And we're gonna divide that guide in some sections and each section is gonna be a mission. For example, let me give you an example. There is one guy. It's about creating a basic web app in Python and deploying it on a cache sounds really cool. Right so. + +00:05:00 + +Robert Del Rey: It got three steps. So each step is gonna be a For example, the first mission for this one. It can be the requisites that you need to do this. So to ensure that you can follow along the guide you need to use Python you need to use Docker maybe you might need to use visual studio, right? + +Robert Del Rey: And you need to get that and create that account before getting it started. So the first mission could be that and when you do that mission you will have access to the other Mission which is about creating the environment. The next mission is gonna be creating and testing the web app. maybe we believe that doing the missions that way people are gonna learn even better. The missions will be funner more fun, I guess and everything's gonna be clear in a sense that you're gonna know the step you're currently on. And when you do it only when you do it, you're gonna be doing the next step. + +Robert Del Rey: And maybe finally when they complete all the steps and follow the guide to completion that's the time where they can claim the required and that way it's gonna be easier for us calculating the rewards which was another whole new mission for jamin. because on how silly exports that data if that's a right way to say it. I know I said a lot so far in this introduction. I don't know if you guys have a question or if I should go ahead and continue with my talking, but maybe I'd like to know if you have some initial ideas on how the missions would change now. + +Robert Del Rey: If not that terrifying guys, if you have any random comment, just popping up just drop it in the chats or in the CD score. But yeah, that's one that was about. The feedback we got. And I also about how the missions are gonna look based on that feedback. We want to keep making this environment fun and learning for everybody. I'm pretty sure we're gonna have time and a space for more complicated tasks. + +Robert Del Rey: I don't see why cannot add those into silly to and complement them with also The Beginner's task that I was just talking about. But really nice. Also, we're thinking that that is an extreme just to make it easier for us and to keep track on the Sprints the rewards the money. All of that. We also believe that if we run the Sprints in a monthly basis. + +Robert Del Rey: Instead this was a pilot, right? But based on what we noticed on the Pilot We believe that during this into something that we come up with New Missions to do every month and we keep the ball rolling like you say guys doing monthly different missions and having different people do the missions and complete them and give them A special roles on Discord like silly quests computer or silly boss. Those are many years I'm just trying to say that Benjamin. we see a great future in this first pilot was super successful in very knows some of the things we can improve and also let us know they're real power that is behind this because I don't know if you also so the screenshots that I share on the + +Robert Del Rey: on the silly these courses about some websites people did I don't know if I can share this in the screen. do you still see the form or you see these corner? + +Benjamin B: I still see that. + +Tyler Wright: Still through the form. + +Robert Del Rey: Yes because I share only that is really nice. Stop sharing. one second guys + +Robert Del Rey: We're live, Just commented the window. okay here you can see my Discord you see it. people awesome. Thank you so much. So these are some of the submissions we got for create your own website and host it on a cash. And yeah, it might not be the bestest graphic designs in the world. But what for me they look beautiful man because these are Creations people just + +00:10:00 + +Robert Del Rey: and design these got the info they needed they put on a cash and did their submissions and for me that is I don't know. it was really good. I mean, I bendy saw it first when he was reviewing the missions, but when he shared that with me, I was so blown away, even though I don't understand anything that says here and overall how people were able to I don't know. Maybe they had this going and they just move it to a cash. I don't care. Maybe they did it from zero. I don't mind but the key thing is that they were able to deploy the website on a cache or run the website on a cache. + +Robert Del Rey: and yeah for me that was super powerful and we want to do more of that in the ceiling. So yeah, just let me move on a little unless you guys have any other question about the feedbacks. We got the action plan. We got for the missions. I will go ahead and briefly talk about the rewards payout I don't want to get in many super profound details because Yeah, how would you export data of silly you click on export members exports data and you're gonna get an Excel file and there you will have the username if they sign up with an address. You will see the address you will see how many missions they did in but I guess it's accurate to say that it's super basic. + +Robert Del Rey: However, it's that basic that we discover something while doing this pilot and when extending the pilot. so the first time we did it we didn't have Anybody doing the missions so basically everybody started from zero when the first pilot ended. We just exported the data and it was super easy to see how much everybody won for the missions. + +Robert Del Rey: However, the second time we did it exactly we run the second screen people have started doing missions. and those that already did missions were getting The points to do for doing the second pilot extension, And those points were being added to their previous Point balance that they have from the first pilot. So ported this info again when the second pilot ended We explored the info again and everything was at it to the final result. So basically we had to run a separate. We got to export the info again, and we basically kind of matched it with the first export with it. And we calculated the difference in rewards between the first time people did it. + +Robert Del Rey: And the second pilot we also had people that only got rewards from the second pilot those were easy to discover because it was their first time they were beginning from zero. But we by doing this matching and subscribing subtracting. We were able to determine the points for winners in the second pilot that also want something in the first pilot. + +Robert Del Rey: And we were able to determine the exact amount that they won. So we won't be over paying them. We were able to get calculation. we learned the way to do it. I don't know it's queer complicated. It definitely can be proof. I guess Benjamin's talking about modifying some script. So yeah, I'm pretty sure we're gonna overcome that in and make it easier to determine the rewards for next time. So the possible solutions would be like what I say before we can structure the missions in a way that only last mission when you complete the process of tasks that last mission is the only one that is gonna give you the prices. + +Robert Del Rey: and the other making sure missions you can do them only once a month. So we have that report once a month. It's also gonna be easier to determine the winners and then Those are easier to find they're not winners. But yeah, that's the situation with the rewards payout. I guess that we're already have the final number. Im sorry. I just haven't said that. I'm a site to pay out the rewards. So that's on me. High honestly, but yeah, that's the situation with the rewards right now and that's gonna be for the first segment of this goal feedback's Mission action plan and the rewards payout. Do you guys have any questions about what I just said + +00:15:00 + +Robert Del Rey: in the meantime, I'm reading what Benji sent in the show. So I can modify the script I made to save price information. To make sure this doesn't happen again. Yes. Sure. And yeah, I'm pretty sure we're gonna find a way I don't have about it. It's just that it's crazy. How the more we get involved in this the more we learn about it, right and more things we discover along the way trust me. If you ask me about all of this three months ago, I wouldn't be able to answer you health of the questions. and yeah, I'm sure we're gonna get that sorted out. + +Robert Del Rey: My dad, It's been a while experience. So that's why I want to really discuss the next segment of this call, which is about the budget we're gonna have for this and the time length for the next campaigns and if we are gonna have a signaling proposal to see how the community feels about it, or if you should just go straight away. + +Robert Del Rey: And ask for more funding from the community support proposal the best way to go forward. I don't know. I'm just like setting the pace now I love to know some of your ideas Maybe you Thanks for working on a holiday. Thanks for having time with us. Maybe you can let us know. How do you feel about all of these as an Akash team member as a core team overclock team. Sorry as in a cash. Call Robert Clock Team. How do you feel about seeing these initiary from zero maybe having one pilot pilot to paint out rewards and now discussing about the future. How do you see it as a court team member And how do you sit in the future starting from here? I guess that's my question man. + +Ty Wright: Yeah, no, I think. This has been an ideal kind of experiment in. + +Ty Wright: Just creating Community initiatives, obviously there's been a number of technical ads but I think this kind of programming. I know it's something that Adam wozni has thought about a lot, Huey and myself and other members of the core team and also thought about a lot is empowering folks like you Robert who are very involved and have great ideas and they're creating kind of programming that's going to get folk other folks like yourself and other new users, that can potentially be inside which vanguards Etc. So, at the highest level, I think this is been a success obviously who Akash have now been, inspired to use it through this program. I think it was always designed to be a pilot, where the resources came from the community support proposal. + +Ty Wright: I don't know how you all want to move forward really the idea around the community support proposals for smaller items smaller. Bounties and rewards that are less than 500 dollars in akt, kiwi and I want to put forth a discussion. I would involve other members of the community to create a program that would really be a micro grant program. So no amount larger than maybe two thousand USD in akt, but the goal is to really push initiatives this right before. a proposal like this, which I think should eventually go For a discussion and then on chain to get funds for the entire year. + +Ty Wright: You don't know how these programs are going to fair. When you think about them. I think before diving into a community pool. It's great to be able to Pilot some of these things and test how successful some of these programs could potentially be I think it's what we did here and you and Benjamin have been great leaders and have shown all right, zealy is a platform that people will use isn't something that can grow. something has legs and we can use In my opinion the successes of the pilot. In a discussion that can start like hey, this is what we think it'll cost for the entire year to run this program. This is the outcomes. We think this is the mission of the program and again with the Wind from the pilots. I see. No reason why this wouldn't pass and just be a yearly program, that would be another way to bring new. + +00:20:00 + +Ty Wright: users onto the Akash platform so that's how I think about it. If you all think that it needs another round of pilot before it potentially goes on chain. I can talk to Huey because I believe the community Budgets just passed last week so we could talk about using potentially some funds from January to continue on with the pilot. We can continue that conversation async maybe in zealy chat. But again, whether it be like the case studies or the feedback that you just got or, examples of some of The real life thing that people have done on zealy. I think there's enough evidence and there's nothing this way more than enough of a case. + +Ty Wright: To put a discussion on to to create a plan for the year, and figure out how much + +Robert Del Rey: awesome No,… + +Ty Wright: I know I said a lot so I apologize. + +Robert Del Rey: I did you said. What's great? Thank you. You were more that bad enough. it was actually exactly where I wanted to go. what in thought could start gathering for all now on so when we come up with a discussion, we have enough to get proposal. I got a few stats like the numbers of rewards paid out how many people have engaged in missions how many missions were completed? So I guess we're gonna think about how much will it cost to outdo sustain this for one year maybe have also a second plan for six months and share that with you guys and go from there what you say and also adding the real life examples that you say by the end. + +Ty Wright: I + +Ty Wright: I think for me that's the best step forward again. Benjamin and Robert you have shown the leadership, to kind of run this program and continue moving forward. So from management standpoint, I think we're in a good place. It's just about what those missions are and this a really defining what the program is and what success could look like for the program over the course of the year, + +Robert Del Rey: awesome time Thank you. Benjamin if you want to jump into the common now, maybe you got some extra comments. You want to say see you in the comment Rodrigo actually assisted some people In the first stages on the pilot. So rather maybe if you want to share anything feel free to drop so to do so I'm just talking right? I got to direct this but this is basically Open Mic if you want to just jump in and say anything just do go ahead Benjamin. So your hand first. + +Benjamin B: I think a great way to continue Just discussing should we have the main discussion being GitHub? Where should we try to agree on numbers and the details here? What do you guys think is the best option? + +Ty Wright: it's my opinion that from a leadership standpoint. Maybe this is something you Benjamin and Robert could talk about offline and then can have a discussion if there is a desire to Support funds for a secondary or a third pilot, talk to Kyrie and I about it and then if not, then I think it should just go up and GitHub discussion. + +Ty Wright: and frankly if you want to put up in a GitHub discussion before and the next steering committee meeting, that also might be good because then again we can kind of fast-track this because again, we already have case studies and proof in the pudding from the pilots. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I think it makes sense to do either one or two of those because I don't think this should be living off that proposal forever. And we're trying to plan some of the details of time me and Robert's already but basically what you're saying is that we should try to come up with some details. Of exact numbers of them we can move forward with discussion. + +00:25:00 + +Ty Wright: Yeah, I think we can move this very quickly. The only reason why I say it might be if you all decide hey can we have 1,000 or 1500 dollar USD in akt from the January part of the community pool or Community Support budgets because we don't want to lose any momentum that we had over the last couple of weeks and we feel like we have a good momentum going and that would make sense. If you feel like the momentum wouldn't be lost and you all could wait a couple of weeks until you figure out a long-term plan like this as Robert just said it could be you all figure out what a plan for the year looks like, but then you're just asking for Quarterly, Chunks on chains similarly to what? + +Ty Wright: the overclock team does with and what Adam does with the events proposal, you have a signaling proposal proposal for the whole year and then you have a community spend proposal for every quarter. You can do it that way or it might just be easier to just manage it for the year and get that money up front, and obviously depends on how much money you all think this program needs and obviously Huey and I can help with the budget if you think hey his x amount of dollars too much we can say can we do it for cheaper or no to make that it makes sense, so we're certainly a sounding board. But I do think you all have shown the ability to own this outright, Where everything from again? + +Ty Wright: Building out the missions, following up with members of the community judging the missions and paying out you all have shown the ability to handle that so we should continue in that same thing. + +Benjamin B: Also, thanks for that answer. I think that we can definitely do that and While I don't see needs to take you more and do it instantly maybe Robert wants to do that. I think that we need some help to figure out really some things. how many people should we? It's fair to include in this program. the hackathon the proposal is currently asking for free people and then How much is fair to ask per person? I think those details are nice to agree upon in the working group called + +Benjamin B: because sure mean Robert can just figure something out and then people can say yeah, we kind of agree we don't agree but if something can be agreed upon in this meeting that would mean that at least everyone involved and actively interested in this no start. Yeah. we all think this is fair. + +Ty Wright: That makes sense. I guess from that standpoint. Maybe you all take the week to kind of devise a plan that would include management costs like everything, rewards amounts, desired outcomes all that kind of stuff and it could be presented either get a dish draft or it could be in a dock whatever is the easiest for you all and then we can have a + +Ty Wright: working group zealy meeting same time next Monday where we iron out all these details on the record before putting it on GitHub discussions, and obviously the GitHub discussions would include those details This is how much it costs to manage this program and it'll just be broken down there and so be very clear to everybody but we'll also have again next week's conversation on the record where the participants all agree to what we think is fair for all those things. that Benjamin is that more of a clear plan moving forward. I know Rodrigo has his hand up. So I apologize for keep. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I think that's more clear. So we give iron out our details of line. and then we discuss it in the next meeting if you feel like there is a need to adjust it or should we we could just next meeting try to I don't know we could have this variables for every single thing. We can say we think that we need two or three people for this. Then we should be good. We think we need this amount of rewards and then we could discuss everything because I don't know if you want to bring in suggestions in anything or if you rather want us to just yeah, we think we need this. Do you think this makes sense? + +00:30:00 + +Ty Wright: Yeah, I think everybody circumstances are different and I'd rather start from a place of this is where you all feel comfortable and feel, appreciated and can do the best possible effort versus us, trying to put some arbitrary number for some dollars and sense of theoretically we don't control, you know what I'm saying? So we're just working alongside you + +Benjamin B: Also, I understand though. Maybe we should let the Rodrigo take the mic. + +Ty Wright: Yeah, sorry Rodrigo. + +Rodrigo Rochin: It's no worries guys where the love hearing all this? Just wanted to I raise my head because I want to congratulate both Robert and Benjamin like it was already mentioned You took over the Sealy program and are the leaders here? to be honest, I was a little skeptical at first about silly. Because from it my experience with other silly Quest or provincial. I don't know what you come. I've seen lots of scammers and what we saw another dead Nets and with the faucets which were abused and honestly at first I thought some of the missions were a little overpriced or over rewarded but it does look like + +Rodrigo Rochin: we actually gained some users from it, which I truly didn't expect as many but it did see it we can see in this court. I mean we have a lot more users. I'm sure many of them came from silly. and I said, I wanted to congratulate you and I think that what Tyler is saying that you can get a + +Rodrigo Rochin: I mean this going on chain and getting the Grand or funding or whatever you want to call it for the entire year would be great because boy it does seem like the silly program works. I try to participate that at first but then over the holidays and things I haven't gotten a chance to complete some of the tasks and everything, but I don't know how many y'all have anymore, but that's wanted to conqueria. It seems like it works. and if I can help on something, I'm ready to help. And yeah, let's keep it going. + +Robert Del Rey: Thank you so much for other youth Amendment. And also thank you for your support. I remember when I was trying to do the cloud of stuff like recording with a cash Builders and contributors Rodrigo was actually one of the first that raised his hand to help me out and we recorded something there. It seems like it was a while ago, and it was just like last year, but thank you so much for your support buddy. You awesome and also the rest of the cash community. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Here with magnets took over this you all you and Benjamin are the leaders here. You started you didn't own you. I think it was Adam or maybe Tyler mentioned that this is the first time the community actually build the program on their own. Done it great. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, brother. So you Wake up guy? I don't have. No more topics to this cause I do have some homework from this call and just for the recordings I go ahead and pay out the rewards now. We'll do a brief announcement. We'll gather the address that I need to gather because people want prices now For the first time so I need their addresses people that won in the first pilot and then one in the second. I don't know if I should ask for addresses again or just confirm with them. Hey, should I send the prices to this address? I don't know what you think about that. Go ahead Benji. + +Benjamin B: I was planning to say something else, but I think in that case you can say something like if you want to. Change your address, Please DM me before the payouts. They were something so they have the opportunity to change it. But otherwise just send it to their address. And what will I was going to ask Tyler here… + +Robert Del Rey: awesome + +00:35:00 + +Benjamin B: because you and Scott are in charge of the other proposalis. And what should we do with the remainder of the Farms? Should we? Draft our proposal and basically if it passes. and we keep them and if it doesn't pass we send them back or what do you think is fair + +Ty Wright: I think either you can do one or two things. I think you can either add new missions and continue on taking those funds towards those New Missions while we put the community pool proposal on or if you just want to have a clean stop right now while you figure out next steps this return it and then I feel strongly that things will move forward, and there's got the fun at that point, so it's just cleaner. That's what we do there was a bunch of community resource funding from last year. And even though the proposal asks for this year. We just return that last year and then we got the new funds this year. It's just much cleaner and just transparents. so short answer is if you want to use those funds to continue on with zealy feel free to do so, if you want to have a clean break and just pay out people for Pilots one and two right now, then just return them to Huey and you can talk to Huey offline about that. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, me and Robert can continue the discussion for sure. + +Ty Wright: all the other thing is I let me know if you want to have the zealy meeting next Monday at 9:00 am or 9:30 Eastern. We usually have the website meetings 9:30. So that's why I might have had it for 9:30 as opposed to die. I apologize. But let me know what time you want to have the meeting next week and I'll add it to the calendar and then we can go from there. + +Robert Del Rey: here What when did you say you have the website call? Sorry. + +Benjamin B: for me or go first + +Ty Wright: I usually have nine thirties on Thursday and I like the per half hour because if we have people in I don't know it just gives people an extra little bit of time especially Huey because he's in Central Time Zone. So it's really even 8:30 versus 8… + +Robert Del Rey: Mm-hmm + +Ty Wright: if we could do it at 9:30 next week. I think Huey will have more time if not at this time is too late for some folks and we can do it earlier and just how this work with you we offline to make sure that it's available. + +Benjamin B: This time works for me. + +Ty Wright: Okay. + +Robert Del Rey: So this thing works for me to I thank you. + +Ty Wright: Yeah again,… + +Robert Del Rey: but Sorry,… + +Ty Wright: I just want to go ahead. + +Robert Del Rey: you were suggesting to change the day from Monday to Thursday. So here we can join right? + +Ty Wright: No, I'm suggesting just to change the time the day could remain next Monday, but instead of 9 am… + +Robert Del Rey: Not okay, okay. + +Ty Wright: which I think we've done meetings in the past at Eastern 6 AM Pacific now we're going to do it at 9:30 because that gives Huey an extra hour or excuse me extra 30 minutes because she's based in a later time zone than the East Coast. So it's earlier for him that is for the rest of us. + +Robert Del Rey: Good. + +Robert Del Rey: Okay, okay. Thanks, Yes, so I said it again. Yeah this time works. + +Ty Wright: So we'll do next Monday at 9:30 AM Eastern United States time and all of everybody can translate that to their local time. So I guess start talking at UTC. I apologize. + +Robert Del Rey: That's cool. I learned talking UTC because of working remotely honestly. + +Ty Wright: he + +Robert Del Rey: But it's still sometimes I struggle so just send the invite and if it doesn't match we just complaining this girl,… + +Ty Wright: Perfect. Yes exactly. + +Robert Del Rey: Awesome, so I don't have anything more guys. If you have something more to add I guess it's the time to drop it now. If not, I guess we can wrap up this call. What you say? + +Ty Wright: Appreciate y'all. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Okay. Yeah for sure. + +Robert Del Rey: Hey Ty. We appreciate you. + +Ty Wright: presentation + +Robert Del Rey: Thank you so much for your help and setting up these calls. All right other. Thank you for joining Benji. And thanks everybody for joining this call and listen in the future until next time right as stay safe everybody. + +Ty Wright: Absolutely. Hey Roger. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, thanks everyone. + +Rodrigo Rochin: but you Yeah. + +Ty Wright: If you can hear me, let's talk offline about that discussion that you put forth on GitHub. So I think that's a really interesting idea. So I'll follow up with you probably tomorrow about that. + +Rodrigo Rochin: awesome, as am I thought we were going to talk about it on I don't know what to call it the community the one we're really discuss the GitHub discussions. + +Ty Wright: Yeah, the steering committee. + +Ty Wright: Yeah, yeah. + +Rodrigo Rochin: That during Community… + +Rodrigo Rochin: which I think you moved it to end of the month. but ready to talk to you too. + +Ty Wright: Exactly this I got the sick last week. + +00:40:00 + +Rodrigo Rochin: Glad You think it's a good idea and I think it could benefit the network as well. We will get new providers and that see what happens. + +Ty Wright: No exactly. I got some ideas. So I'll follow up and stuff some time with you this week to talk about that in more detail. All right,… + +Rodrigo Rochin: Awesome everything. Thank you. + +Ty Wright: appreciate y'all. Have a great day. + +Rodrigo Rochin: same here, but + +Benjamin B: You too. Bye. + +Meeting ended after 00:40:40 👋 + From 4676fdba06e6d54adaeaa8ca933d62ecc5eeab4f Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 02:31:27 +0000 Subject: [PATCH 7/8] Create meeting notes for Wg-zealy #8 (#473) * Create meeting notes for Wg-zealy #8 Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * wg-zealy Update 008-2024-01-22.md add transcript and recording Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Signed-off-by: Drinkwater Co-authored-by: Drinkwater --- wg-zealy/meetings/008-2024-01-22.md | 487 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 487 insertions(+) create mode 100644 wg-zealy/meetings/008-2024-01-22.md diff --git a/wg-zealy/meetings/008-2024-01-22.md b/wg-zealy/meetings/008-2024-01-22.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f6b93c2e --- /dev/null +++ b/wg-zealy/meetings/008-2024-01-22.md @@ -0,0 +1,487 @@ +# Akash Network - Zealy Working Group (WG) - Meeting #6 + +## Agenda +- Briefly review the purpose of the Akash Zealy initiative and its successes to date. +- Discuss cases of suspected users abusing the system and share details about any rewards withheld due to suspicion. +- Introduce the new tiered mission structure for February. +- Present the draft proposal based on the pilot results and discuss the proposal's key points + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Monday, January 22, 2024 +- Time: 6:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://4dq4pkkqqmljo2ukbfplejfpdjw2itvunyzo3hf24zra73afipwa.arweave.net/4OHHqVCDFpdqiglesiSvGm2kTrRuMu2cuuZiD-wFQ-w) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Benjamin B +- Robert Del Rey +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- Tyler Wright +- Крис Тофер + +## Meeting Notes +### Progress Updates: +#### Robert Del Rey: +- Robert Del Rey informed participants that the second pilot had concluded on January 5th. +- Mentioned a delay in reward distribution due to holidays and transition back to work. +- Discovered two users sharing a similar email address, raising concerns of potential abuse. +- Discussed a case of a user with a display name discrepancy on Zealy and Discord. +- Shared screen to illustrate the document and highlighted the issue with the letter "e" in the username. +- Created a specific mission for the user to claim the reward and resolved the issue promptly. +- Requested Benjamin B to provide details on these abuse cases. + +#### Benjamin B +##### Rewards and User Behavior +- Benjamin B provided further details on additional abuse instances. +- Shared screenshots indicating a user, NinjaBus, with multiple accounts attempting to claim rewards. +- Noted that NinjaBus and Alphotox accounts were flagged as potentially linked due to duplicate activity. +- NinjaBus claimed to be brothers with Alphotox, raising doubts about the legitimacy of their claims. +- Scott Hewitson shared insights on common patterns observed in testnet scenarios regarding duplicate accounts. +- Emphasized the importance of scrutinizing claims and paying out rewards based on the highest legitimate account activity. +- Robert Del Rey clarified that while NinjaBus was paid in the first pilot, no rewards were issued for the extension or the Alphotox account. +- Benjamin B acknowledged the lack of established rules during the pilot phase. +- Benjamin proposed implementing a maximum one-account policy per household or device in future iterations. +### New Missions Demo +- Robert presented a demo of the new missions format for the Akash Zealy initiative. +- Robert showcased the quest board on the Akash Network dashboard with draft missions. +- Robert explained that the missions were not colored because they were not yet active. +- Introduced the concept of an introductory mission, demonstrating how participants could download programs and submit their Docker setup ID to claim the mission. +- Discussed the possibility of auto-validation for certain missions to streamline the process and avoid wasting time. +- Benjamin B expressed approval of auto-completion as long as it didn't exceed the budget. +- Robert demonstrated the customizable options for missions, including quizzes and cooldown periods for retry attempts. +- Robert continued with a demonstration of the subsequent mission, focusing on creating and testing a web app environment. +- Highlighted the importance of following the guide sequentially for successful completion. +- Invited input from Scott Hewitson, Tyler Wright, and others on desired developments within Akash for future mission focus. +### Feedback on desired developments within Akash for future mission: +- Tyler Wright expressed appreciation for the demo and shared high-level thoughts on the goals of Akash Zealy. +- Emphasized the importance of finding and engaging power users within the community, leveraging Zealy as a vehicle for community growth. +- Highlighted potential focus areas such as dockerizing specific layer two projects and running AI models on Akash. +- Scott Hewitson affirmed Tyler's points and thanked him for the comprehensive overview. +### Final submission requirements for New Missions +- Robert continued the demo, presenting the third mission, which focused on containerizing, testing, and uploading the application to Akash. +- Robert explained the step-by-step process, including creating a Docker image, running it on Akash, and the final submission requirements. +- Raised the question of the best method for submission and sought input from Benjamin B. +- Benjamin suggested collecting usernames for the first mission to track success, allowing screenshots for the second mission (optional), and proposing guidelines or screenshots for the final mission. +- Acknowledged the possibility of rewarding the best submissions and conducting a review process for the final mission. + +### Draft Proposal +- Benjamin presented a draft proposal outlining the Akash Zealy initiative, its pilot results, and plans for the future. However, it wasn't ready for public sharing yet. +- The group agreed to prioritize discussing expected outcomes and resource requirements for the program. +- Initial results from the pilot were positive, with some increased Discord engagement observed. +- Robert suggested shifting the focus from "Zealy" to a broader "developer onboarding program" to avoid confusion and gain wider community support. +- Benjamin proposed exploring options beyond Zealy for specific initiatives, such as sponsored contests, to attract different developer segments. +- Scott Hewitson suggested framing the program as a way to bring in new developers, leveraging the pilot's success. +- Rodrigo Rochin shared his initial skepticism about Zealy turning positive based on pilot observations. +- He suggested exploring other platforms or tools with a higher concentration of developers for future initiatives. +- The group acknowledged the need for a clear and concise program name that resonates with the wider community. +#### Tyler Wright's Input: +- Tyler emphasized the importance of focusing on developer onboarding while acknowledging Zealy's utility. +- He highlighted the need for a clear path for Zealy users to transition into deeper community engagement, such as hackathons, working groups, or joining Discord communities. +- Tyler stressed the importance of showcasing Zealy's effectiveness in driving participation in existing community programs. +- Robert acknowledged the need to retain the talent attracted through Zealy missions. +- He emphasized the potential to transition users from Zealy participation to becoming insiders, vanguards, or active community members on Discord or other platforms. +#### Funding amount: +- Initial proposal: $2,500 per month for rewards ($500/week for 2 users). +- Discussion around confusion between weekly and monthly calculations. +- Benjamin clarified the proposal is for $2,500 per quarter, not month. +- Scott suggested using the full $6,000 per quarter for rewards if possible. +- Overall agreement that the requested amount is reasonable. +#### Proposal presentation: +- Robert plans to present the proposal to the steering committee on Thursday. +- He will incorporate feedback from the call, including: + - Highlighting the broader "developer onboarding program" focus. + - Clarifying the use of Zealy (might explore alternatives). + - Elaborating on rewards and their purpose. + - Emphasizing the goal of retaining participants beyond the program. + - Adding information about onboarding experience, marketing, and post-program engagement. + - Highlighting desired outcomes, such as attracting more developers like Robert, Benjamin, Rodrigo, and CJ. +## Action items +- Group to Establish clear rules and guidelines for future inititiatives to prevent abuse. +- Continue refining and finalizing missions for publication on the Akash Zealy platform. +- Tyler Wright and Scott Hewitson to provide further input on the draft proposal.. +- Group to Consider renaming the program to "Developer Onboarding Program" or similar. +- Explore additional engagement strategies beyond Zealy missions +- Benjamin will update the proposal based on the call discussion. +- Robert will present the proposal to the steering committee on Thursday. + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Robert Del Rey: All right, and we Off to the Races Thank you Tyler for the reminder and start recording and Everybody that is here in this call Happy beginning of the week and those listening maybe later. Welcome to the cash silly working group call where we discuss all things about the cash silly initiative. and that the year with a successful pilot and we are in plans of how this is going to look like for the remaining of the year or for the next few months. I guess this call is going to be great to decide a few things. And I wish her the agenda have with you and if you want to add anything to be agenda, feel free to drop it in the chat, or just let me know. + +Robert Del Rey: Things I want to cover is the rewards paid out and users and abusers. We got a few cases of maybe people trying to abuse the system and we want to talk about those so we can learn and see how we can manage those. In the next location I can say right away that we haven't paid anybody that we got that we are suspicious on yet. I wanted to wait for these calls so we can all discuss it and maybe get to a consensus the next Topic in the end is gonna be the new missions that we have planned for the month of With the new structure and everything it's gonna go in levels. You're gonna do one Mission then another and then the last mission is gonna be the mission with the rewards. it's gonna be fun. + +Robert Del Rey: In the last topic of the agenda. it's raining a lot here guys. I don't know if you can hear it. What is crazy? the last topic of the agenda is gonna be the proposal exposition. we were able to craft a draft with the results of the first pilot how we got there how we ended it and how we plan to continue and how much it's gonna cost. We have Initial Ideas so we can start the real discussions. So yeah, those are the main topics I have unless I think about anything else if you guys have another topic like I said drop in the chat, if not, You can tell me now. If not, I can just go ahead and start right in. + +Scott Hewitson: Sounds good. + +Robert Del Rey: I said thumbs up. Scott said sounds good. So we have the blessing now. Let's do this. So guys the second pilot ended. On January 5th because of the holidays and other works and that transition period between the holidays and start working again, We waited a few more days to pay the rewards. And just last week I made the announcement that We got the numbers ready for the rewards. In that document we found two users that share a similar email address. And maybe Benjamin can share more details about these abusing cases. + +Robert Del Rey: we haven't paid at that person yet, but that was something that happened. We discovered two identities. That was one of the interest instances. and other two There was one girl that I couldn't find in the document in the Winner's document. + +Robert Del Rey: But then I was able to find her in the first winner document. So in the first pilot, she actually won a few akt and I checked the history and whatever and we never paid her that But she trying to claimed that last Friday, so I was trying to find her in the latest document that the winners document number two for the second pilot or the extension of the pilot. Sorry, and I didn't find her in that extension document but I went to the first document and I found her there. So I paid the rewards it was a 10K 18 rewards. That was an easy one. The other one was one guy and I'm going to share the screen for this. + +Robert Del Rey: the second guy there was a discrepancy in the user. on silly and the user also for the document so in the document + +Robert Del Rey: Let me see if you can guess you can see my screen. Yeah. I'm just showing you silly. + +Benjamin B: Yeah. + +Robert Del Rey: So I won't show you the document in this way. Let me do it again. I'm so sorry. + +00:05:00 + +Robert Del Rey: I'mma just go with the entire screen and screen too. All right Okay, you're gonna see my beautiful background. This is something you don't know about me. I love geography like you have no idea guys. and this is one of the best backgrounds I have. I don't know if you can see it. But what I wanted to show you was the winners document to this is the results. It's in my notion. Let me know if you can see it. Can you see it? + +Scott Hewitson: Yep. + +Robert Del Rey: So this is a user ID that you will have on Sealy. This is related to your silly user. It looks like a hash rate. And yeah, this is related to your username. This is gonna be your username on Sealy. And this is going to be the Discord handle as it says. So what happens I sure the announcement that we had the winners. Please come and claim the rewards some people send me their address. whatever this guy sent me a message shaped bershapi what apps So on this core. It only says beer shop. It doesn't have the e at the end. but when I export the document + +Robert Del Rey: it comes out with this e at the end same as the silly username, but on this score, the guy doesn't have that name. It's a British app without the e at the let me know if guys can see it here. You sit here? + +Scott Hewitson: Click on their name again because sometimes you can change your display name in a channel, right? Okay. + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah, this is the original when they text you so the display name is Spirit Shop, and the user is very sharp without the e. so on the document it has + +Tyler Wright: And the only difference is the E. Sorry to cut you off. + +Robert Del Rey: it's It's okay. Tyler's. Yeah, the only difference it's the E on the username. So what I did was the following and now you will be able to see a cash ceiling. I created One mission specifically for that guy. it's called claim akt reward test and I sent him this Mission and told him be at the end. Go to this Mission and click on the mission. Let me know you mission. So when the guy claimed the mission, I went ahead and exported the document again. In the mission was there. so Okay. It's taking a little while to load. But yeah, this is the guy. + +Robert Del Rey: and he did the mission right away. So I don't know if there is an error with the document here. you can see it here. He claimed 30 minutes ago as soon as I sent him the message. He claimed the mission. So even here these courses Bishop B with the e at the end, but on this Korean doesn't have the e. So, I don't know what you guys think about it. I haven't received any other message from a similar account. I just decided to pay the akt after he claimed the mission right away, but I wanted to bring you the story case so you can let me know what you think about this. There are two other abuser instances that maybe bendy can expand a bit more. but yeah, I wanted to share that initially with you guys. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I just want to say that I think that your solution here was quite good because while this might have happened due to maybe a name change or something and there's no one called the beer shape or whatever in the Discord like the linked name. No one has that. so I think it's fine for the other two abusers. I just want to quickly mention that we noticed that they had. Let me share some screenshots actually. + +Robert Del Rey: Chairman, go ahead. + +Tyler Wright: Cool while you're doing that I see and maybe you can't talk and I'm having a difficulty pronouncing your name. But this is a working group for zealy is an initiative that Robert and Benjamin are leading up as a part of the vanguards and part of the Akash Community to continue to bring more developers into the ecosystem. So I don't know if you have anything that you would like to contribute or any questions that you may have. But I just want to see if the person that just joined has any questions comments or anything that maybe they want to put in chat or just talk about + +00:10:00 + +Benjamin B: All Thank you And back to what I was saying. I sent a link in the chat and I noticed that this guy ninja bus had been using an account on the CLI that was alphotox. This is the same name as another user. So we flagged this as someone with duplicate accounts trying to get multiple Rewards. After they reached out they mentioned that they were brothers, but I don't know how much you should trust people. + +Benjamin B: Anyways, these two accounts are linked. That's all we know. Go ahead Tyler. + +Tyler Wright: I know Scottish is hand raised, but the only thing I'll say very quickly is we've + +Benjamin B: Do you have anything? + +Scott Hewitson: Sorry, I wasn't. Yeah, I was just gonna sit like I was going down the same track as tie. we see this all the time at the test net. So anytime there's someone trying to claim at the same email address or we've seen, combinations of it's where so you can clearly tell this is A duplicate and so in that case, the ones that are grouped I pick whichever one is the highest amount of Rewards pay that and then forget everything else, because they did complete a bunch of stuff. Just good. I can pay it and then most of the time to we do it and then nobody ever comes back and complains or if they do then you say what's up with this and then no response, so the second they're just looking for something easy, it's an easy. + +Scott Hewitson: easy way to get extra and if you just push back a tiny bit, they'll probably stop and if they don't we can elevate it. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, Okay in that case. + +Benjamin B: Yeah. Thank you Scott. + +Robert Del Rey: I'm sorry Benjamin real quick to add some context. We did pay ninja base in the first pilot, but we haven't paid anything for what he did in the extension and nothing to the alpha looks account, which is duplicate the abuse account. Just wanted to add that for context. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I think the decision we made is that during the pilot we don't have many rules set right now. I think that we can put the blame on us we can give them the benefit of the doubt because while they're obviously linked it's not like two user free It's not. Done in that way. So I think the minimal rewards paid out is fine for figuring out this rule. So next time we will have a rule that says Max one person per either household or her a computer or something like that or just no duplicate accounts or allowed. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, baby. That's great. + +Robert Del Rey: Yes, so far that's all I had on rewards users and have users. It's a funny name Ben if you have anything more about the abusers cases, I can go ahead and move on to the next topic of the agenda. All right. Thank you humbs down. this is a quick demo. For how the new missions are gonna look like if you are on this call or you see this recording later you will get some Alpha and how the missions are gonna look like. And maybe that can give you some heads. So let me know if you can see the Akash Network dashboard the quest board. Sorry. + +00:15:00 + +Benjamin B: I see. + +Robert Del Rey: let me remove So this missions they're not color because they're not active. You can see here the label it's draft. I can publish them. But if I publish them people will start to do them. And I don't want that. maybe we publish them on February or whatever. We start the next phase on this program, which is gonna be soon, hopefully and the missions is three missions as you can see here, but this three missions are only one Mission and I will start with the first one so you can understand better. The intro it's gonna be a basic web app in Python and deploy it on a cache intro. + +Robert Del Rey: So you have a little intro this is bait or this is based on a great guide that Benji shared with me a few months back and help me to get started a little in this and basically that process I through I mostly went through because I didn't complete it. That is what it's gonna happen in different missions. So this is the first one the intro basically to complete the missions. You need to download these and you download these three programs, whatever. + +Robert Del Rey: And after you download the programs. Here says submit your Docker setup profile ID. So once you are done with this, you need to create a Docker desktop account. And to claim this first mission you need to submit your Docker desktop for a file. That's the most basic info I can know right now and it's easy to find if you can think of another piece of information. That they can use to submit this and proof that they downloaded this. Let me know. I'm also thinking that since this is just downloading stuff. This Mission can autovalidates and the guys do them and go to the next mission in the chain. Wanna stop real quick. So you guys can let me know what you think. I see one hand Go ahead brother. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I think as long as we don't try to limit rewards to fit a budget. I think Auto completion here is fine. + +Benjamin B: And still have the response so that when they have to write their name, can it just automate anyways. + +Robert Del Rey: Yes, yes. Let me show you right I set up in url, but we can change that to empty. And it can validate It just come up with a bottom to claim Mission or we can do text. and they can write whatever they want here + +Robert Del Rey: Also, if we are looking for a specific answer we can have a cool down here and they can try again. Maybe one hour later one week later. So yeah, really cool. We can also have a quiz or Paul and we can add a question specifically What's your name? I don't know. This is just improvising and here they can add quite option r or option b But yeah, it's very customizable if that answered your question Benji. + +Benjamin B: Yeah. + +Robert Del Rey: And yeah, we can do this no Auto validate draft and you go. Here is it? + +Robert Del Rey: You see It's number box that they can write and after they write they click on claim, but I can claim because I'm an admin but you get the picture guys. no, no, okay. Okay. Are we here? + +Robert Del Rey: Can you guys hear me? Okay, okay. + +Benjamin B: Yes. + +Scott Hewitson: Still can hear you? + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks for a second. I felt like the electricity was out. + +Robert Del Rey: There were problems I guess no worries. So we continue this is gonna be like the intro it's gonna be Auto validating. I believe it's a great option. So people don't waste time and they can continue to the next mission in the chain. It's gonna be the same title, but now it's creating and testing your web app. And now you can see how this is turning a bit more fun. Because now if you can do this it's because you did the other steps in the missions the second step is this now you're gonna create the environment for the application in Visual Studio or something like that being explained to me. + +00:20:00 + +Robert Del Rey: I'm pretty sure that we're gonna get lots of questions in their cash daily. Hopefully that's the case. But this is how the mission would look guys. You have all the commands here and you have a description what's gonna do and the steps if they read this in order they would be able to do it. But if they jump from here to the last part they won't be able to do it in my opinion. So you have to follow the guide. And this is the example with Benji's guide, but I believe we can fit anything a cash related in this format. And that is one question I had for you Scott and Tyler or maybe for others in overclocks, like what? + +Robert Del Rey: What are the things that you would like to see being develop the most in a cache and maybe we can focus on that for one or two months and do missions that support that goal or for our clocks or for the cash Community if that makes sense, I believe it does. So yeah going down to the submission method. I just did three x because I don't know what would be like the best roof. I believe I screenshot will do or maybe one copy of the code. I don't know Benjamin what do you think about it? But that's basically it. and the third mission it's like the last You made it all. This is the final step. Now we're gonna containerize test and upload the application that these guys did. + +Robert Del Rey: You have here create a file and the name Below Docker image you got the comment the commands you got everything and then the last part is run it on a cache. + +Robert Del Rey: And yeah, I'm very happy to see how they actually look way prettier than the first missions. I don't know if that's gonna do something. But if I was a super developer or maybe a beginning developer, I would like to see this instructions and the content I'm gonna use in the CLI or the environment whatever. But yeah, I like the way it looks that's one personal note. I want to leave there. Please help me with the submission type. I don't know Benji. What would you like to see submitted? It's gonna be like their application, but maybe we should have some guidelines not to leave it so open. on the first pilot, but leave it + +Robert Del Rey: openly enough that people can do their stuff and build on a cash and run on a cash and it's still claim the missions maybe for the last mission and this is something I just thought maybe they won't win rewards right away and we can get a few submissions like five ten people do this and we can review what is the best application and maybe that one can take the final price? yeah, I leave that to the floor. So yeah, maybe what's up, man? + +Benjamin B: So let me start with the last idea you had I think that it makes sense to have some rewards like that. I think there should be a bit of both for some there should be the best if you create a video for example, maybe just record the best and also to speak on how I should have this Mission so I think for the first one we can collect the Username and have it all to complete this gives us some data and we can go track and see how successful as this Mission bin for the second one. Maybe a screenshot, but we're not going to pay out rewards for your step to I'm guessing so. If they do a screenshot or not, it doesn't really matter. So I think they should just be allowed to go do the next step if they want to. + +Benjamin B: And for the last one, I think that either we can have some guidelines set so that they have to keep it on mine for a minimum of a few days or something. So we have time to review. or we can And send us A screenshot maybe we can also well validate it to their username. So if they have their Docker username we can see uploaded an image that works and then we will also see the screenshot that They also did deploy it. + +00:25:00 + +Robert Del Rey: Awesome, and thanks for the input. I will do the changes and have them reflected in mediately. Thank you so much, And yeah that's all for the new and demo Tyler. Go ahead man. + +Tyler Wright: It's not like that was really awesome. I know that you ask for some feedback from the overclock Labs theme. At the highest level one. It would be great if you could share and I know you haven't gotten to that part yet, but the second discussion and the proposal for the next steps. so that he and I can take that internally and continue to push it forward with some other thoughts because I think at the highest level what zealy is trying to do and I think overclock Labs is trying to do that. And so it's a cash Community is we want to find more. + +Tyler Wright: vanguards and power users like yourself, if you want to find more Benjamin's we want to find more Roberts more Rodrigo's more shimpas or julius's and I think using zealy at the vehicle to get folks like that into the community is a great idea. at the highest level, I know that's what with eat Denver and a number of those conferences that members of the community and the core team will be going to trying to figure out dockerizing specific Layer Two or the East project and running their nose on the Akash Network and building svls that make it easy for other folks to do that. It's something that is very interesting and obviously anything + +Tyler Wright: An running specific AI hugging face models on a cache could be an interesting challenge to bring out more technical users to understand that kind of stuff similar to Julius. But again, I can write that more. I can write that down. But I just want to put that on record of something like high level things that I know the coaching to think about. I'm sure you might have some others again. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks thing. + +Scott Hewitson: No, thank you covered it well. + +Robert Del Rey: awesome + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah said Cindy Robert I wrote some but yeah, if you're free to send those over you can send me at the end if you want to send them in the CBD score, but whatever Thanks for those suggestions were really nice. I wrote some myself to and I believe now we'll be perfect time to start going over about the proposal and plan the next steps four days or maybe people and start the next phase of this. I don't know you're gonna call it still. + +Robert Del Rey: If you want to go over the proposal and I support you. That'd be nice if you can take over the second segment of this call. If you're ready, of course. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, Thank you Robert. I mean Let me share my screen. + +Robert Del Rey: everybody + +Benjamin B: so I have not published this to GitHub yet because + +Benjamin B: I don't think it's quite red. I think that we should go over this and try to agree on some stuff. I wrote this draft just before the weekend and I wrote some resources. I think we need and just a general overview of how it could look like. I'm not sure if this is enough. I don't know if this is too much. Do you want a few minutes to read through this everyone? + +Robert Del Rey: Okay. + +Scott Hewitson: I'll read it real quick. + +Tyler Wright: Is this in a state where you can send out a draft? Just or whatever. + +00:30:00 + +Robert Del Rey: I guess we can go over the basics while you still see these craft… + +Benjamin B: Sure, I can do that. + +Robert Del Rey: but basically it talk about Seeley what it is what we have done so far and how the pilot went. And what we're going to focus specifically is. if the resources required are + +Robert Del Rey: maybe good enough for the community so we can post this and start getting the conversations going. and I'm more specifically interested in the spec that outcomes and I like brainstorm to come up with these outcomes, but cause I love to hear your guys perspective from overclock perspective and make sure the outcomes we're working towards to are aligned to the outcomes that you guys want to see in our clubs and that the broader Community wants to see so yeah, basically at least personally what I would like to focus on right now in this discussion is the resources required and the expected outcomes. + +Robert Del Rey: Basically, but that's me. I don't know Benji if you would like to focus on other topics outside those Scott or Tyler the rest of the participants, right? + +Tyler Wright: I think that makes the most sense for me. I think Benjamin does a good job of laying down the foundation and the whole story and so I can read that but I think the outcomes and how much to ask is the most important thing to talk about + +Tyler Wright: Scott you have your hand raise? + +Robert Del Rey: Go ahead. + +Scott Hewitson: No, I'm just reading through this. No, I mean I think we did the pilot and you just quickly go over high level results. what did we learn from the pilot? it says 925 akt was rewarded between 22 or 25 Mission 76 users. Do we see any of those users hanging around in Discord more or is anybody But is people to come do it and then leave we want to try to make it somewhat sticky. + +Scott Hewitson: Go ahead. + +Rodrigo Rochin: So yeah, like I said in our last silly meeting call. I have seen more people after the Silicon paint in this court. And it does look like some of them are staying I did also say that I was a little skeptical about silly. but it seems it's working and Robert and Ben are doing a great job. + +Scott Hewitson: No,… + +Robert Del Rey: Thank you so much, brother. + +Scott Hewitson: I mean I missed the last call. So sorry if any of that was discussed. But yeah, no, I think at least from my perspective, some people don't know what zealy is or whatever. So if we do put this forward you Say hey, this is a developer onboarding program or something a little more broad that I mean, we're using zealy as the tool to do it. But just to get wider support from Community validators. Whoever if you say hey, we're trying to bring on new developers and look we've already done that through these Pilots. It's just further bolsters the narrative or the case to get money. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, I like the name. Also. You said the developer onboarding program, right? + +Scott Hewitson: So yeah, something like that. + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I like that because sometimes I think yeah It's been helping us doing those missions, but I don't want to see getting in the way and become an obstacle for people to onboard Akash it's great. How silly help us do these but yeah, like you say Scott. I don't like the focus to be on silly or to have people think too much about silly. So I guess it's great if we start the Also saying instead of silly. It's a community growth to whatever. + +Robert Del Rey: This program is a developer onboarding program using silly and that's it. And I believe that that will be even more powerful to introduce the document in my honest opinion and that way we don't Focus like that much on silly because everything is done through silly. So it has enough participation I guess in this program. Thank you for that. + +00:35:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, and then I also kind of opens you up to if there's other ideas or options to explore getting the high level goal of onboarding more developers than you kind of have a little leeway to do so. + +Robert Del Rey: thanks, go ahead and + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I think not limiting. Everything to seal is a great idea because what happens if you just want to host a fun fun little sponsored contest, so I've had this example idea in mind for some time. imagine that we want to bring over web to Developers. We for example team up with some game developer influencers who could help share game jump and then to this users we could sponsor their server so we could help them Host Game Servers. Just as an example that could not be done through silly in the same way. + +Benjamin B: Go ahead rodr. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Yeah, like you'll say and like I said, I was a little skeptical about silly especially because I didn't think that there's many developers there and I do see how silly helps you out to manage this program and makes it easy and there are tons of users there. Although I thought or think that they're mostly just nothing folks What's it called? Let's scavengers the People just looking for airdrops and stuff. but yeah,… + +Robert Del Rey: this bounty hunters + +Rodrigo Rochin: maybe they're there. They Bounty Hunter. Yeah, so it could be used silly with another platform or another tool where there are more developers. I'm not sure which one but of their properties one + +Robert Del Rey: Go ahead Tyler. You got your hand up. + +Tyler Wright: The only thing that I'll add and I don't think there's anything wrong zealy. I see other communities also using zealy. So to Scott's point. I do agree that focusing on just the developer onboarding is the most important but we could talk about the kind of communities you really has and all that kind of stuff just as a starting point and to everyone's point we can switch later. I think to Scott's point about stickiness. I think that's one of the things that we have to make sure that whatever platform we use we're making sure that there's a path for zealy users. So we're getting people from zealy Community to get really interested in the cash or other communities once we get them interested and once we have them doing something where do we push some next and I think that's just as important as doing the missions because + +Tyler Wright: than whether it's into the Discord or whether it's having them do more bounties. we just want to keep them in the community and keep them building for as long as possible. So I think that's something very important to think about and continue to focus on as a part of this experience. + +Tyler Wright: I'm sorry real quick or whether it be like the hackathon, there's all these other programs that are, getting community pool funding right now. I think it'd be great to Showcase zealy's power and pushing people into Hackathons pushing people into working groups and cigs pushing people into the Discworld communities that they join the Insiders or eventually join the vanguards, and if those are things that are actively being thought about and being pushed I see no reason why this wouldn't be something that everybody in the community understands and wants them back, because again, we're already using the existing programs that Adam has worked so hard to build, and others and we're just again using zealy at the vehicle to continue to push people into those programs. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, though. Yeah, we'll definitely put more thought on those points you say and how we're gonna retain those talents because how much over 76 users interacted downloaded stuff and did something on a cache. So we should be able to keep at least a percentage of those people and make them inside. There's make them vanguards or make them just normal community members, but they are there on these corn telegram supporting else so yeah, I guess we demonstrated that we can use the tool now. The next critical point is how we're gonna + +00:40:00 + +Robert Del Rey: turn those testers or users into a cash community members, I believe we are aligned there, Yeah, I'm sure we are. It's gonna be a great news if we can do that. Go ahead Benji. I'll see you. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I want to add something to what the rotor was saying. I don't think that we should just have the celebrating users trust. I think that a big portion of this is that we have to find users so we can decide a little longer on how we are supposed to do that. But just relying on a platform to give us organic users. I think that's not enough and on a Reddit. We can try to Market on Twitter and then we can try to Market through. all other sorts of Medias but I think that. + +Benjamin B: The success we have had now, I think that's without almost any marketing at all. So I think if we start to actually push the marketing initiatives, I think this can scale up really well and we can try to Target real users who or developers but then also if we find people that are not Developers as long as we shape the missions, so it doesn't matter. And then we can have any users and how much they want to learn is up to them. So, I don't know if you were here earlier in the cold Rodrigo. But basically we discussed one of the new missions that we're going to release. And if you're not a developer and you have never touched a command line or never touched a script. + +Benjamin B: There's a big chance you won't be able to complete it or at least you will. Be scared from it. However, if someone wants to learn, I think that even if they are a developer before a cost or not, as long as they're willing to learn how it works and maybe get an interest for Akash after that. I think it's good enough. + +Tyler Wright: So real quick,… + +Robert Del Rey: Absolutely. + +Tyler Wright: I do want to add to that point that Benjamin made because I think it's worth talking about. I know that Adam has been thinking about to continue to improve the onboarding experience for people that are like vanguards or there's General people that come into the chat and hey, they want to learn more. I love the idea of zealy being an option because some people just may want to learn on their own and we can send them to the docs. We can send them to Cloud most we can send them to pray or we can do a number of options. But some people maybe we need to be incentivized and zealy because there'll be funds behind it. could back. All right here this guy get started and potentially get paid, and maybe we'll get a whole batch of folks that come in that way earn a couple AKA now that they have that akt they can use it, + +Robert Del Rey: I can go ahead. this is an open stage. At least for you guys. You're like the founders of this project. So if you want to say something just jump in. + +Benjamin B: Of course. + +Benjamin B: Anyways, I just wanted to say that I think there's been enough time to go through this. I think you've had 15 or 20 minutes to read for this now. + +Benjamin B: I'm asking Easter anything you want to add besides there was some things discussed here about the expected outcomes, especially related to things such as insiders program and working groups. Vanguards Etc. How do you all feel like should we change anything here? Should we add something more besides that we want to try to focus even more on this we have missions. And then what do you think about the funding? I don't think this is a huge ask for the community pools size. But maybe it's a bit much for this specific proposal. I want some feedback on everything here on whether or not you agree or not. Go ahead Roberts. + +00:45:00 + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks ji. Maybe just for the record you can just say how much will it be for the length of the campaign or how much we think will be enough and for how many months we plan to do this? + +Rodrigo Rochin: yeah, I hadn't read the document generating it now, so + +Scott Hewitson: Just quick question,… + +Tyler Wright: but I'll go ahead. + +Scott Hewitson: You want it? I got it. All right, so I'm just looks like two people 500 bucks a week because it's 250 a week or per person per week for 2500 USD a month. Where's the extra 500 bucks? Just I see. 500 a week times four weeks two grand I think is completely reasonable. for How many months a quarter? + +Benjamin B: Everything is for a quarter and these are rewards this would be for each user here. + +Scott Hewitson: Okay. + +Scott Hewitson: So wouldn't it be six grand for the quarter because two grand a month. I know that's really nitpicky. But + +Benjamin B: Let me see. two weeks in a year divided by 4 times 250 + +Scott Hewitson: five I guess yeah going off of weeks versus months. + +Benjamin B: to be a free files into 250 per person. By my calculations, it's correct. Let me show you here. + +Scott Hewitson: No, that's fine. I mean if you're going off of weeks versus I was just going off a month four weeks in a month, but not every month has exactly four weeks. So + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I was going by the hours and USD power so it would be accurate and by the quarter + +Scott Hewitson: Gotcha. No,… + +Robert Del Rey: But I think that's a great. + +Scott Hewitson: I think this is fine. + +Robert Del Rey: I just got sorry. + +Scott Hewitson: no, I was just gonna add so we have the five grand a month in rewards. This is just an idea but not saying we have to do it which is wildly under underutilized. So if anyone out there has any ideas and wants to do stuff, please let's spend some more money, it's like if that's not getting used we could use that. I don't know if we can use that for rewards until it starts getting used more. But I think this ask is completely fine. I don't have any issues with it. I think it's reasonable. we've been transparent as long as we got the steering committee on Thursday. I don't know how you feel about turning something quick and getting it out there, but I think it would be really nice to be able to bring this up and steering committee for, carve out. + +Scott Hewitson: Four or five minutes at Ty can squeeze it in there to say. Hey, this is what we're thinking and the goal is to get more developers to get more folks building on a cost and by the way, we have some proof that some of it works and we have some more people in here. But time is of the essence since steering committee is on Thursday if we want to get it in, I'm just thinking trying to get full support from community and the steering committee. + +Tyler Wright: I would agree with that. + +Benjamin B: awesome + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks. + +Tyler Wright: I think the ask is more than reasonable. And if we can get this online and start to get folks Rodrigo great. It'd be great to get your thoughts on it, especially + +Tyler Wright: when people say I didn't think this gonna work but that makes everyone feel good. But yeah, if we can start getting comments on here I can add some and hopefully we could talk about this on Thursday. I forget it in the next day or so, then I'll make sure we talk about it on Thursday. + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah, I can. + +Rodrigo Rochin: And also really sounds great. + +Robert Del Rey: Go ahead and… + +Robert Del Rey: really sorry. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Sounds reasonable and… + +Rodrigo Rochin: like I said, I do see more users in this court. + +Robert Del Rey: Thanks, And thank you Tyler and Scott. We're gonna reward this to make sure we add the topics that you mentioned how we can use this to retain more people the developer on boarding program and maybe we can work with the wording on the funding. so there is no confusion because I believe there was a confusion between what is Scott was reading and what Benji was trying to explain in the funding. So maybe we could work the word in a little but yet you can add it to the agenda for this Thursday. I'll be happy to go over this and finally present this to the rest the brother Community if that makes sense and what had Benjamin + +00:50:00 + +Benjamin B: Thank I was going to mention kind of the same things. I will be going over some of the things with mentioned in the cold today. And this discussion will be up today with the changes. I will make it so that the focus is it's clear that we might go away from Sealy if we think it's required. I will elaborate what seal is. I will reward a couple of things like this. And do you really think that this needs to be rewarded? I think that and All in all is pretty clear, but Maybe just because you didn't have time to go over it. It created the confusion. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I don't think it needs to be reworded all that much and… + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah, that's a great point. + +Tyler Wright: I don't even think you need to put an emphasis on the idea of potentially moving away for zealy. I think you can focus on it's a developer onboarding program. Zealy is what we're using and if somebody wants to come back and back. I think we should use this program or okay, let's do the research. But again zealy is shown that there's a community there and the pilots have been successful. So I don't want to just make people have to make more decisions. We'll move forward with zealy until others say have better guidance, + +Tyler Wright: But yeah,… + +Benjamin B: also + +Tyler Wright: I think just the structure is good. I would just add the stuff about the six working groups. I would add more information about the onboarding experience and how we want to potentially Market this get people that join the community to leverage zealy to earn as a path earn rewards and learn more about Akash and then that stickiness, after they complete the program how we push them into other things and those outcomes of again finding more Roberts Benjamin's Rogers CJ simpos. I'm sure I'm leaving on a number of folks in the community, but that's just a few of key. is that are accountable build a number of different ways both technically and not technically and just support the growth of the community if we can find + +Tyler Wright: four more five more each of you. I think we'll be in a really really good place. + +Benjamin B: Also, thank you for this. I will also mention that we agreed that during this call that the details or reasonable. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I think to ask amount. I think it's perfectly reasonable + +Benjamin B: Adele's come out the expected outcomes Etc. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I think this is. + +Rodrigo Rochin: You could look fine like sorry. + +Tyler Wright: N't. No no,… + +Tyler Wright: go ahead Roger. + +Rodrigo Rochin: They're like Tyler's there anything this doesn't need much rewarding anymore and… + +Rodrigo Rochin: it would be great to push it on Thursday and have it going this quarter. + +Robert Del Rey: Sounds like a deal. Thank you guys for your input. + +Scott Hewitson: I think maybe one thing to add It's just at the end of it. Just give a report just some kind of transparency of hey, This is what the results were after it was done so that we go back to ask your more for another quarter. Then people can make educated decisions. + +Robert Del Rey: Let's go also based on that I believe. Benji we should go ahead and have the cell file with the previous winners and how much we have paid so far. I believe that's also a good piece of information to have there. + +Benjamin B: If you could send all the relevant links you want to add here I could add them. + +Robert Del Rey: Sure, you got All right, you're righty. I would say this has been a really solid call guys. Thank you for joining and thank you for your time also for those listening to the recording. Thank you, and please get involved. I don't have anything more to add so far. I believe the points were great. and there is some thinking we're gonna do Benji you and this week until Thursday, but yeah, it seems that first is gonna be the day that we reveal ourselves to the community, but knowing the way that you thinking and So guys, yeah, that's all for me. Unless you have anything else that you want to add before we wrap this up? + +00:55:00 + +Benjamin B: Queer employment. Thank you everyone. I'm super appreciative of these calls. + +Robert Del Rey: Awesome. thanks everybody. + +Tyler Wright: Please thank you. All this is amazing really excited for the future. + +Robert Del Rey: Yeah. Yeah, let's see how it goes, right? Thank you for joining us. Stay safe and until next time guys, okay? + +Rodrigo Rochin: integral great job that you guys + +Scott Hewitson: All right. + +Robert Del Rey: you see + +Benjamin B: Bye everyone. + +Meeting ended after 00:56:59 👋 + From 1185364c7d63b892ff011d7efc2a63f778caaac8 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Drinkwater Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 22:48:32 -0400 Subject: [PATCH 8/8] sig-chain Create 013-2024-02-13.md (#485) * sig-chain Create 013-2024-02-13.md Signed-off-by: Drinkwater * Update 013-2024-02-13.md Signed-off-by: Drinkwater * Update 013-2024-02-13.md Signed-off-by: Drinkwater * sig-chain Update 013-2024-02-13.md add recording and transcript Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --- sig-chain/meetings/013-2024-02-13.md | 97 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 97 insertions(+) create mode 100644 sig-chain/meetings/013-2024-02-13.md diff --git a/sig-chain/meetings/013-2024-02-13.md b/sig-chain/meetings/013-2024-02-13.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..41275fc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-chain/meetings/013-2024-02-13.md @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +# Akash Network - Chain Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #13 + +## Agenda + +- Discussion of network upgrade plans for q1 2024 +- Proposals on chain for vote. +- Open discussion + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Tuesday, Feburary 13th, 2024 +- Time: 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://swcn57cpu3ttvpgaf7e52xsv5wil57wtyredtvnd6bprntawwl3a.arweave.net/lYTe_E-m5zq8wC_J3V5V7ZC-_tPESDnVo_BfFswWsvY) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + + +## Participants + +- Alani Kuye +- Artur Troian +- B S +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Carruthers +- Tyler Wright + + +## Notes + +- Tyler mentioned that the core team is working on a number of items. +- Artur reitterated that there are 3 upgrades planned for the quarter. The work for network upgrade has been deplayed. +- Artur has implemented changes for expedited proposals. +- Artur mentioned that CosmosSDK 50.0 is very useable. Going to plan to get there quite soon, and want to upgrade potentially end of q2. +- These are quite drastic changes so this will be added to the roadmap some time soon. +- After expedited govenernance proposals, closing status of the lease, is the next planned upgrade. Network upgrade will allow users to see why lease was closed. +- ICA is also on the table. Packet forwarding is more important. This is the 3rd governance proposal. + +### Action Items + +- Schedule upcoming network upgrades. +- Keep community updated via discord. + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody to Sig chain monthly meeting number 13. This is the second monthly meeting of 2024 during the sink chain monthly meetings. The group goes over anything related to validating the Akash blockchain Network upgrades anything around those topics. We also talked to some validators that are another ecosystems and Cosmos SDK and Cosmos ecosystem and are maybe again up doing upgrades on other projects and it might have Intel that might relate to potential Akash upgrades again out of the last meeting. We talked about a number of upgrades that are playing for q1 of 2024. + +Tyler Wright: I know that the core team has been extremely busy doing some other work that you can track on the roadmap. And so there's been a little bit of delay in figuring out the next Network upgrades. I know that Archer is going to talk maybe a little bit at a high level as that's a potato what's next and then we'll continue to work on specific plans async. But yeah, I'll just hand it over to Archer if he has anything, but he wants to talk about specifically and I'll just take notes in the background and then if anybody has any discussion questions or anything that they wanted to discuss related to Blockchain Network upgrades Etc. Feel free to drop those in the chat and we can go for those in a little bit. But our Trail handed over to you. + +Artur Troian: Thanks not. All right. Hello, everyone. + +Artur Troian: Yes, so the chain updates are slightly behind our initial schedule that we have plans later. at the end of times 23 so we have trained Network upgrades plans for this quarter and this stage a little behind you Quite important features needs to be done for Provider Services. but I would say nearly the finished State for the Provider Services and you're gonna start working on the upcoming network of great related for the + +Artur Troian: expedited governance proposals quite soon. So we have actually implemented the changes itself. What we have to do is testing and hopefully it's going to take maybe for two weeks. And then If nothing interrupts this schedule maybe in end of February, but Market we' I'm grading our Network the biggest thing on the table though is decay. be gonna start thinking maybe and of Q2, it looks like Christmas Decay 50.0 is + +Artur Troian: usable right now quite a few changes have been updated. We're going to start planning in this phrase. + +Artur Troian: quite soon We don't know though, if it's gonna be one stage update or we're gonna have to do through interim stages. I'm not sure yet. Most likely we will have two due to quite drastic changes. in the schema, and I believe they require to have interim updates, but anyways, we gonna have roadmap is that + +Artur Troian: On time and of February, I think. so we have also planned two more updates after Governor expedited government proposal. So number two. Sorry will be related to deploy please status. + +Artur Troian: No, Closer status in the lease and that's been requested by quite a few. + +Artur Troian: Are users that when lease has been closed for whatever reason like out of funds or it's been unstable or stars and so forth parent design does not allow to put exact reason why it was closed and we gonna be providing Network upgrade to fix that. It's going to be simple change. I didn't one more Fields into the lease and provide there will be required to put the correct status and why this was closed. As well as when this is being closed by the user. It's still gonna be the reason cell caught by user. So it's going to be providing way more transparency for most more sites. + +00:05:00 + +Artur Troian: and then there is an ICA on the table, but we still like the process of thinking this is low priority for us right now. Most likely that first one will be f*** it forwarding which is again, we have sort of code base implemented, but it needs to be tested quite thoroughly. So I think this is sort of the update for this time. Are there any questions? + +Artur Troian: Okay, tell her about + +Tyler Wright: Purpose. Thank you very much Archer. again, people can track the roadmap and see what the core team is working across the number of different efforts on GitHub in the project section as Artur mentioned as soon as Artur and Scott are finished with some other provider work that they're working on next steps will be made in determining when Network upgrade will happen for the exponent expedited governance proposals. Then after that you heard Artur on the next two upgrades that are planned or in the works if anybody has any feedback about order of operations or schedule again, I know folks have been talking about ICA and GitHub discussions and it is very much on the roadmap. There's a support ticket that people can track but again, + +Tyler Wright: there is been collaboration discussion on order of operations, especially with a smaller core team. If anybody has any questions about those order of operations, feel free to bring those up in this meeting with discuss or in steering committee. But again the path forward the Archer is outlined seem to make sense for continuing to question that work forward. Does anyone have any specific questions about anything else? + +Tyler Wright: pain related Network upgrades or validators + +Tyler Wright: cool So again, this is plan to be a short meeting anybody else. go ahead Rodrigo. o your sound is + +Rodrigo Rochin: quick question when use these global Enable or Clans yet? + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, so I think the question was when usc Noble enabled. I believe the Archer put a comment in the chat. I know this is something that folks have been asking for but I believe this is Packet forward dependent which is why pack it forwarding is being moved up. Correct me from around art. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, that's absolutely correct. So first of all pocket forwarding needs to be enabled for that that's number one requires network of great. The second is Once again, there's no much use of it. So we're trying to balance the features that being requested and what we can provide right now. So we definitely keep an eye on the things and thank you for bringing that up. As soon as we see that this becomes really Origins, but really it stops huge amount of people from deploying that we're gonna reshuffle. Our priorities but for now, it's gonna be one of the lowest but we still hope to implement it sometime obviously. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I think an Artur and other members of the community have also talked about this packet forwarding should unlock a number of items both on the wild side and some of these other items. So once pack it forwarding is unlocked and that's something that's playing for q1 might be pushed out a little bit to Q2, but it certainly high priority in the next top three urgent Network upgrades. Once that's implemented then I'm sure we can take next steps whether it's in this call Sig economics or async to figure out all that packet forwarding unlocks and how we can continue to network forward from there. + +Tyler Wright: Does anyone else have anything that they want to discuss here today? + +Tyler Wright: All right, much appreciate everyone taking the time again when more concrete announcements are available. I'll make sure those announcements are distributed in the validator announcements Channel as well as to those that are part of that email group for validators so we can again continue to have constantly communication. Hopefully again, I do want to shout the validators for many of them are very active and votes and have been more active than historically. So again, we're going to continue to up that number but much. Shape the consistent participation by so many. + +00:10:00 + +Tyler Wright: But other than that, I hope everyone has a great rest of your day. If anybody has any other questions comments concerns Network upgrade or cost blockchain related. Feel free to drop those in sick chain and Discord or reach out to me and look at those all but Archer thank you for leading us through another call and we'll continue to again keep the community updated between meetings if we have any updates to get. Much patient every time that have a great rest of the day. + +Meeting ended after 00:11:27 👋 +