diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/017-2024-06-18.md b/sig-economics/meetings/017-2024-06-18.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9836d1b3 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/017-2024-06-18.md @@ -0,0 +1,410 @@ +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #17 + +## Agenda +- Recap of the previous call (early May) +- Provider incentives update +- Coinbase Learn progress +- Tenant incentives discussion +- DAODAO and Cosmos Wasm integration +- Inflation and staking percentages discussion + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2024 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://camg45yyujtsslq5bwquh3pybr3ugqzi27rkdbhxfk3bgej5v5yq.arweave.net/EBhudxiiZykuHQ2hQ-34DHdDQyjX4qGE9yq2ExE9r3E) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- Joao Luna +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Hochmayr +- Robert Koschig +- Rodri R +- Scott Hewitson +- Sean Morris +- Tyler Wright + +## Meeting Notes + +- **Provider Incentives Update:** + - Scott mentioned the progress on the provider incentives dashboard, which is almost complete. + - Action item: Scott to finalize the dashboard in the next few days. + +- **Coinbase Learn:** + - Over 500,000 activations achieved. + - Current budget is still substantial, with future campaigns and quests planned. + - Discussion on the translation of these activations on-chain and the strategy to encourage long-term holding through a staking quest with the Keplr team. + +- **Tenant Incentives:** + - No significant progress on tenant and Sonos. + - Discussion on potential pilot programs to incentivize tenant deployment. + - Update on oWce fixing, allowing for easier deployment. + +- **DAODAO and Cosmos Wasm Integration:** + - Nick Merrill's proposal to add Cosmos Wasm to Akash for community pool tokens vesting and other functionalities. + - Current focus on core functionality; smart contracts integration is a lower priority. + +- **Inflation and Staking Percentages:** + - Discussion about recent Discord discussions on inflation and staking percentages. + - Current APR is approximately 20%, with inflation around 19%. + - Props 240 and 241 adjusted inflation parameters and increased the community pool tax. + - Concerns about high inflation leading to sell pressure and negative price action. + - Scott to run some numbers and continue the discussion in Discord and the next call. + - Discussion on estimated time to reach market cap with current inflation parameters. + - Current projection: September 2030 at 344 million tokens, cap at 388 million. + - Community pool tax (40% of inflation) ensures tokens are locked and released only through governance proposals. + - Emphasis on maintaining a decentralized approach to managing the community pool for long-term health. + +- **Proposal Discussion:** + - Jeremy from Shade Protocol suggested funding a pool on Shade to enable secret AKT transactions. + - Rodri shared his experience with AKT transactions on the Secret dashboard, which were not working in December. + - Scott emphasized the importance of community input and thorough testing before moving forward with proposals. + - Encouragement for Rodri to share his experience in the discussion for better context. + +- **Inflation and Token Dynamics:** + - Sean Morris raised a question about the average tenant lease period, which led to a broader discussion about the need for more detailed metrics to understand token economics better. + - Scott mentioned the importance of tracking lease periods to understand the market dynamics and stickiness of tenant leases. + - Sean was advised to check Sig Analytics for any existing metrics and potentially raise the question there for further analysis. + +- **Additional Listings for AKT:** + - Andrew Gnatyuk asked about the strategy for additional listings of AKT on exchanges. + - Scott emphasized the trade-offs involved in paying for listings and the focus on organic growth. + - Scott mentioned that paying for listings is generally not prioritized, focusing on organic growth and meaningful integrations. + - Major centralized exchanges like Kraken have listed AKT without solicitation, showing organic interest. + - Dex listings are considered case by case, with emphasis on meaningful integrations that provide real value to the ecosystem. + +- **Proposals and Community Involvement:** + - Tyler Wright highlighted the importance of community input in discussions around inflation and staking percentages. + - Acknowledged the global nature of the community and the challenge of aligning meeting times across different time zones. + - Encouraged ongoing discussions in Discord and Sig Analytics for broader community engagement. + +**Closing Remarks:** +- Scott invited any final comments or questions from the attendees. +- Tyler Wright noted the importance of following up on inflation discussions in Discord to ensure inclusivity of community members in different time zones. +- Reminder that meeting notes and recordings are available on GitHub for review and continued discussion. +- Meeting concluded with a reminder to engage in Discord for any ongoing or new discussions. + +## Action Items +**Scott Hewitson:** + - Finalize and share the provider incentives dashboard within the next few days. + - Continue work on future Coinbase Learn campaigns and quests, including the staking quest with the Keplr team. + - Follow up on tenant incentives and potential pilot programs. + - Run numbers on inflation parameters and share in Discord for further discussion. + +**Rodri R:** + - Share experience with AKT transactions on Secret dashboard in the Github discussion thread for better context. + +**Group:** + - Consider Nick Merrill's proposal for Cosmos Wasm integration in future roadmap discussions. + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Scott Hewitson: All right, gmgm everybody. Today, we've got the monthly Sig economics call for June 2024. And typically how we run through these is a kind of talk some recap from the last call and then talk through any discussions either and GitHub discussions or in Discord in the cigar economics Channel. We'll talk about any props that have gone up and then touch on any items that anybody else from the community wants to bring up any ideas. literally anything at all becomes an open room. So with that + +Scott Hewitson: so last call. Was early May so it's been a month and a half since we talked a little bit about provider incentives the status on that I said, I was gonna have a dashboard up and ready to go by this call. I've got something built out that a few more things. I wanted to add to it so that I'm gonna take that as action item. I should have that and the next couple days kind of just reporting on what's been committed what's been spent and any full of funds or any context that can give + +Scott Hewitson: I think someone asked a little bit about coinbase learn and any progress on that or data points on that. And again, there's been over 500,000 Activation. So that's 500,000 people who have gone through the flow to learn about it's a good number. and it's still quite a bit of budget left. I think we've suspended one of The learn for now, we're going to do some quests and some future campaigns so that big prop that happened a while ago as being used there. What else we got? So I talked a little bit about tenant and Sonos haven't really made any significant. Movement on that there's been quite a few other things I've been dealing with. + +Scott Hewitson: But the idea essentially is we have this provider centers up. we have these committed pools and for gpus and other resources and then on the other side just like any two-sided Marketplace that incentivize a behavior having some tenant incentives to allow folks to deploy for free test out just an easier way to onboard and get people see in the power of that's unlocked now because of the update to office Basically we fixed it so that we can do it now. But if that does come I anticipate that to be a smaller pilot just to start small and then expand from there. + +Scott Hewitson: Another thing talked about last call Nick Merrill from dowdow came on you talking about adding cosmoism to Akash maybe to help with the vesting of community pool tokens or various other functionality that it would add. I know it requires entertaining accounts and that is not something that we currently have implemented on Akash and it's say it's on the road map, but it's lower priority. I think core team is, focused on the core functionality of Akash before adding kind of the flare to it with smart contracts + +Scott Hewitson: Let's see. What else we talk about. I don't think Andrew is here last time so it didn't get his great five questions that he always asked which we always appreciate and always gets the brain going a little bit. But yeah, that was last call. + +Scott Hewitson: So moving Going into the discussions just the channel and Discord. Yeah, Robert go ahead and anyone feel free to interrupt me at any time. I kind of just had this natural progression, but feel free to stop me at any time. + +Robert Del Rey: All right, I will keep betting All right. So you mentioned a cash has. 500,000 sign up in the coinbase learn but I hear the right beautiful 500,000. + +Scott Hewitson: Yes, yeah. Yeah, they call on activations. Basically it means Yeah. + +Robert Del Rey: Activation. I'm sorry. Wow. + +Scott Hewitson: And that might not translate on chain, because you do that you do it and then you get your tokens on and these are three dollar. This first one was a three dollar quizzes. So about 1.5 million and spend But I said, it might not translate on chain because it's just, three dollars worth of akt and someone's coinbase account. + +00:05:00 + +Robert Del Rey: I can imagine and I would say that not only that. I'm sure that in case they get any ATP. It's gonna happen through coinbase, this home base… + +Scott Hewitson: Sorry. + +Robert Del Rey: who holds the ponds of those learners? + +Scott Hewitson: Correct, correct. + +Robert Del Rey: so that also… + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, so Immediately. + +Robert Del Rey: what that + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, so when that prop passed funds were released and those are immediately transferred to coinbase. So they hold a remainder of funds. I have to talk to get an exact amount to see how much is left but there's still Sizable amount for future campaigns and quests. One of them is going to be a staking Quest. I know we've been talking with Kepler team to help with that. So basically it's like hey you get these tokens and you withdraw it and stake and you get more tokens. So incentivizing long-term holding versus just do this and dump. + +Robert Del Rey: Really cool night. Thanks. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: all right, so going back to so Discord chat since the last call there's a few folks and I don't see any of them. Here is Camille Bob or Sith Lord? No, there's some discussions about inflation and staking percentages. I think right now we're at 20% APR ish in 19 and change on inflation. So there was a prop proposal 240 and 241 changed some inflation parameters on Akash and along with adding, or stepping up the community pool tax. So higher portion of that inflation going to the community pool that can be used for governance proposals for all sorts of different things. So when I did that the idea was to + +Scott Hewitson: by increasing the tax We also increased inflation and that was just to make sure that the actual economics and validators. stayed net even what's happened since I think so that was back in cember. So six months ago what happened has happened since is the ratio bottom number of tokens bonded has gone down. So The inflation amount It's gone higher because how it's set up is basically you have a Target and Target bonded ratio of 67% and when it's below that inflation is higher and then as you reach that and go over it and then inflation goes down so current parameters are 13. The Min is 13% and the max is 20% + +Scott Hewitson: So I know some folks have been concerned about that from the standpoint of price action and people say hey Cosmos tokens. They just have high inflation just cause people to dump I know, the past week. Price action has not been as favorable and there's kind of an overall Market Trend down but it's definitely a concern I wanted to address and if you go back to the original Genesis and unlock schedule, so three four years ago the original calculations. We're supposed to buy this time. We were supposed to have 245 million and tokens and supply. + +Scott Hewitson: Circulating Supply. It's like 240 when we ran the calculations last December it was showing 234 so I say that all Say the original schedule. We're still under This updated one. We're a little over it. I talked with Chang a little bit offline and + +Scott Hewitson: without us saying hey we want to reduce inflation. it's definitely something we're thinking about and if there's concerns broadly, it can be changed with the governance proposal. Anyone can put up that proposal if you need help putting it up. By all means over at this point. I don't know if overclock will we may but yeah, if there's concerns or folks who want to explore that more run the numbers more. I'm happy to help assist in any way. or none of the folks that were talking about that in Discord are here. Is there anyone want to talk about it at all? So inflation parameters or any questions about it. Just want to give anyone an opportunity to voice concerns or bring up ideas or anything else. + +00:10:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, Robert, go ahead. + +Scott Hewitson: No, definitely appreciate that and it's really been recent within the past year and change that we've had the community pool tax and we weren't really working with the community pool for a while. So the 240 and 241 were put into place kind of, open the faucet a little bit for the community pool. And if you look at the proposals that have passed I mean it's all things that are progressing the network. So yeah, I'm a firm believer of having a healthy community pool. But I also do realize inflation is a little high maybe we feel around a point where the community pool is, sufficient we can dial it back and the other thing you could do too is, reduce inflation and increase tax a little bit more to kind of even things out if people are worried about seeing a 20 + +Scott Hewitson: and staking APR, I know anything over 10 people serve people are it's just I don't know if it's a mental thing or not. But I know some folks don't like to see those high percentage staking aprs and then it also can contribute to some cell pressure as well because they're all right. I've got my tokens and this is all just cherry on the top so I can just sell those and be good. But no, I definitely definitely appreciate the perspective Robert and I tend to agree with you at a healthy community pool is good for the ecosystem at Large. + +Scott Hewitson: All right, if anyone has anything else they want to talk about from inflation. I'll take an action to kind of run some numbers and put it into Discord and we talked about a little bit more next call as well. Andrew what's going on man? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Hey guys, what's up? Hey Hey My to say just a question about the inflation do we have estimated that time when we will reach market cap on our tokens full open Supply with this inflation … + +Scott Hewitson: Hey, hey. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: if going to be like + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. yeah, let me so I'm going I'm looking at the original Genesis unlock schedule and + +Scott Hewitson: In how that was set up as it has the APR starts high and it gets lower over time there. this one that I'm showing shows September 2030 is at 344. I think we have a cap of 388. So it would be + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: seven eight nine years from now. Depending on they're all parameter changes so you could put inflation to 75% and if it passed governance, it would be at that. But yeah as of right now. we're actually under what the original. the supply estimates were + +00:15:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Got it. Yeah, it's a problem with that. + +Scott Hewitson: yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Thanks. Thanks. + +Scott Hewitson: but to say it again, I think it's something to look at and we should definitely try to make sure that that is that there's a supply estimates are kind of staying closest to what we were originally intending. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, I agree actually think that we have quick decent community pool for now. That's just a concern about basically for the price actions just right because for example the seedlord and this guys are coming from price group. So yeah, eventually they invest in can they just wanted to make sure that not many talking are going into the market on the monster basis. basically look + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, because the community tax of 40% going of that inflation going to the community pool. I mean that's tokens that are not in the open market, right? they to become into the open market. They ask, someone has to put up a community support or Community spend prop that would release those tokens into the market. So even though it's high it's going into a locked pool that can only be unlocked by governance. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep, you got it. + +Scott Hewitson: Which actually I think it's for long term. I know overclock is, we help Steward things, but a community pool. That's the centralized and you can only release funds through governance and the community, I think that's better than having, a bunch of tokens that someone controls so we have,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: agree + +Scott Hewitson: a bunch of tokens that everybody controls and if you look at the proposals that have passed or not passed as a community at large, I think we did a pretty good job of snuffing out things when it doesn't make sense and pushing things through when it does make sense. + +Scott Hewitson: all right, I'm gonna is anyone have anything else they want to say from the inflation standpoint. If not looking at proposals, so there's been software upgrade proposals but no community pool. there is one right now. So yeah, if you haven't voted on that go vote looks like it went up today actually. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, rodri, go ahead. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, Thanks for keeping me honest. Time go for it. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you for that context. I know this is a prop for sixty thousand dollars. talking about the inflation. So this is community pool funds this is something that's going to help the network and the community gets to vote on it. So I think it's a cool thing we have going. It's a really way of operating so yeah. What else we got? Let's see. So yeah, other than that and I don't see any major proposals. + +00:20:00 + +Scott Hewitson: if there's anything else I wanted to chat about. I know. Jeremy from shade protocol. He posted and say economics five minutes before this call has been talking about asking for funds to fund a pool on shade which is built on secret and the rationale is so that people can get akt in a secret manner. Because there is no so you go to secret and then you could buy akt there and it would all happen secretly. + +Scott Hewitson: my opinions on that are I'm open to seeing open it's see things test things out, I try to play Switzerland quite a bit with the proposals, but we'll see maybe Ty we can if he's been waiting for a while. He's been doing all the diligent things that we ask folks before putting up proposals. Maybe we can get him, a minute or two and steering committee to try to propose his idea at the larger community. + +Scott Hewitson: Rodri what's going on? + +Rodri R: just wanted to add to that that I tried buying akt on secret dashboard a few months ago and it was not working. I even posted it in one of our channels. And try to contact the secret team, but I haven't tried it again and didn't receive a confirmation that they made it work. So maybe someone wants to have that too that discussion or if not all at it and if it's already working because I think it was in December or something like that, and it was not working. + +Scott Hewitson: Interesting was that on shade protocol built on a secret or… + +Rodri R: What it was not a shape protocol. + +Scott Hewitson: is it some other decks on speaker? + +Rodri R: It was on secret dashboard. But yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: Okay. + +Rodri R: maybe on shade is working. I haven't tried it. Maybe I'll give it a try. But I don't think it's available yet. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, that's what this proposal is to do is basically take some community pool funds to help see to liquidity pool on shade so that folks can do that. + +Scott Hewitson: But yeah, that would be great. If you could at the very least drop your experience into there because into that discussion, that's discussion 543 because that just helps folks with more context saying hey, I wanted to do this I couldn't so this helps unlock that… + +Rodri R: So for I think shade protocol and… + +Scott Hewitson: then that would be good. + +Rodri R: the secret dashboard they complement each other. So that's why I was sharing this here. + +Scott Hewitson: No, Really? Appreciate that. All That's all I had from a plan standpoint. + +Scott Hewitson: Is there anybody wants to bring up anything at Large? Thai go ahead + +Tyler Wright: I don't have the answer on hand to this. But Sean Morris did drop a question in the chat that was unrelated asking was curious… + +Scott Hewitson: + +Tyler Wright: what the average tenant lease period is + +Scott Hewitson: I don't know that I'm sure there's some stats. I'm like the cloud on the skies. I know because I mean all the data is indexed. But yeah, that would be a good question and Sig analytics and maybe that question has been asked and sea Analytics. + +Sean Morris: Okay, I'll take a look. Thanks. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, no worries. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, because I do know that Lisa's are being indexed with the cloud listen to indexer. + +Sean Morris: That's sort of my yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: So if it's not shown and… + +Sean Morris: so that I think the stats stackboard tracks like total outstanding leases,… + +00:25:00 + +Scott Hewitson: stats that network and… + +Sean Morris: but it doesn't do anything about sharing… + +Scott Hewitson: you… + +Sean Morris: which is sort of what I'm more curious about. + +Scott Hewitson: It would be a good metric to track because it shows to the sticking power, if there's leases that are years long versus, there's leases that are five days. Nobody goes past five days. It's probably not a good thing. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, yeah client point of discussion as the distance alive community and… + +Scott Hewitson: yeah, no, that's definitely be an interesting metric to check. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: with lots of listings already for akt are we still looking for additional access to list akt to find the pools for that or… + +Scott Hewitson: All Does anyone have any other questions related to Sig economics or tokens or… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: something like that or… + +Scott Hewitson: anything at all, Andrew? my question man. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: additional listings at all, except the major Exchange. That we don't talk about. + +Scott Hewitson: yeah, I'd say I mean no, I mean, yeah, that there's definitely a part of exchange it having exposure right where there's more avenues for people to buy the token. that's better. It's kind of just the trade off of All right, this small exchange and this area wants to charge 300 Grand to have akt listed and you might get a hundred thousand and volume or something from it. So I know from I'll say the core teams focus and kind of like, everything's open source anyone can add it. we're happy to help with any kind of technical integration and technical support but really paying listing fees is not really what we're trying to do at the moment. + +Scott Hewitson: I know there's a few major centralized exchanges that are left that we're not listed on. always trying to see what we can do about those but in general, the pay to play stuff. We haven't really + +Scott Hewitson: entertained as much and then from the deck side. So seating pools with liquidity. It's like this, shade protocol discussion. And I think the question to ask is anytime like something comes in to me. It's like I'll look and All right. This Dex it's built on this chain or that, is it what kind of volume are they doing? it's funny when akt is pumping. Everybody wants to list it like hey, we want to when it's not people aren't trying to list it so I think a lot of these deckses they tried to + +Scott Hewitson: they try to ride the waves as things are going up. + +Scott Hewitson: That being said if there's something more than just liquidity like the shade one because you can't get akt secretly anywhere else and… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. Got it. + +Scott Hewitson: that would be a more compelling story for me. I'm just one person and just one person on the team. But yeah, I mean if it's a Decks that has, a million BBL and they're asking for a hundred grand of Liquidity, it's like all right, is that using those tokens there? + +Scott Hewitson: I don't know. But yeah, I think yeah in general. We haven't been paying for listings, which I think is a good thing and Dex is kind of case by case. Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: All Yeah, I know it's like, we all get hit up all the time. Hey, We want to list here and kind of say yeah go for it. + +00:30:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, and realistically too it's some of the I think Kraken listed us without even telling anybody so, it does happen. So + +Scott Hewitson: does it really like dex's are exchanges they're making money off of volume. So special if akt volume is going up and there's a lot of trading volume. That's where they can get their trading fee. But yeah as volume goes down, they're not as + +Scott Hewitson: I guess incentivized to Add tokens. + +Tyler Wright: Here real quick. I was just gonna follow up to the question is Sean have anybody has any questions like that? + +Scott Hewitson: Already, does anyone else want to bring up anything at all any ideas any comments? + +Tyler Wright: Feel free to drop them and sick analytics and… + +Scott Hewitson: And … + +Tyler Wright: then members of the core team. + +Scott Hewitson: you could say hey,… + +Tyler Wright: I think Scott you mentioned this… + +Scott Hewitson: we're not running Sig economics. + +Tyler Wright: but members of the core team that are working on the indexer can help with scripts or… + +Scott Hewitson: We could do it better, always looking for ways to improve try to make these very open and… + +Tyler Wright: queries to look for that kind of stuff. + +Scott Hewitson: and welcoming,… + +Tyler Wright: So if there's any other questions on that front again,… + +Scott Hewitson: anyone who is new I think yeah anyone who's new… + +Tyler Wright: feel free to drop in the sick and let us out that Sig meets every other month. So feel free to get engaged there. + +Scott Hewitson: if anyone wants to talk or you… + +Sean Morris: Awesome. Thanks Tyler. + +Scott Hewitson: bring up anything at all. The floor is open. And if not, we can catching the cut things short. We've got another 25 minutes, but if there's not a lot of chatter than we don't have to go the full time. So I'll leave it open One Last Time Ty. + +Scott Hewitson: All I think with that we can conclude today's meeting. I'll give one last chance anybody want to say anything. Doing once go in twice. + +Tyler Wright: Yes, sorry. One thing I will add is I know that a couple of people that were having those discussions around inflation. They are based in parts of the world… + +Scott Hewitson: I saw a hand raise. + +Tyler Wright: where I think it's three o'clock in the morning for them right now. + +Scott Hewitson: I don't know if you were clapping or trying to raise a hand. + +Tyler Wright: So maybe we can follow up with these discussions in the chat and… + +Scott Hewitson: It happens I do that all the… + +Tyler Wright: Discord to make sure that they know that we talked about them and… + +Scott Hewitson: All righty. + +Tyler Wright: we can continue discussion there… + +Scott Hewitson: All thank you everyone for joining we'll have these notes up in there on GitHub on these as a reminder. + +Tyler Wright: because I think again some of these six have participants from all over the planet. So it's hard to get everybody aligned to come to the same meeting time. So again,… + +Scott Hewitson: All these calls are recorded and… + +Tyler Wright: especially Sig economics… + +Scott Hewitson: transcribed and… + +Tyler Wright: if anybody + +Scott Hewitson: we have notes taken for them. + +Tyler Wright: Want to bring up any conversations between meetings in a Discord cut,… + +Scott Hewitson: So if there's anything you want to free review go for it. + +Tyler Wright: that would go a long way. + +Scott Hewitson: And if there's anything you want to drop into Sig economics, feel free can tag whoever I feel like we do pretty good job of getting back to folks. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Smile right my guys. + +Robert Del Rey: guys + +Scott Hewitson: no, that's a great call out and I'll make sure to post and say economics that we talked about it and they can review the video and ask any other questions. + +Scott Hewitson: Alrighty, I hope everyone has a great rest of your day, and we'll talk soon. Appreciate y'all. + +Meeting ended after 00:33:40 👋 +