Ship/Sub Balance Suggestions and Lvl 10 Destroyer/Sub Idea #217
Therightroad2009
started this conversation in
Ideas
Replies: 0 comments
Sign up for free
to join this conversation on GitHub.
Already have an account?
Sign in to comment
-
AMERICAN SUBMARINES
THIS DISCUSSION WILL BE UPDATED, ILL BE WORKING ON MORE STUFF
SEAWOLF CLASS SUBMARINE
There is interesting stuff to talk about the Seawolf, even tho it being already in the game.
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in: https://www.seaforces.org/usnships/ssn/Seawolf-class.htm
With this, the Seawolf should be able to achieve larger depths in the game, in game's deep spots this is going to give Seawolf the buff it needs. I suggest around 600m, this is also a reason to give the Seawolf more health than Akula, maybe 4.1 - 4.5 ?
Edit: this would be pretty unrealistic since the Akula has a double steel hull and Seawolf has a single HY-100 steel but i'd like 4.1 health for balance reasons since it's a lvl 9.
Do you see these "Squares" in the sides of the submarine? That is called Wide Aperture Array sonar.
The bow passive sonars only give us track's bearing and not range, these WAA sonars in the sides as you can see they're distributed in the sides of the submarines, the system automatically does a triangulation to figure out the track's real distance, i don't know how detection works in the game, just wanted to say this.
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/seawolf/
American submarines use noisemakers instead of russian 324mm anti-torpedo decoys found in most submarines, Seawolf has countermeasure tubes somewhere behind the sail, they're noisemakers of which i'd like to see 4 of them added in the game and keep the already equipped two decoys.
You've seen this on another discussion, In the game Seawolf can reach 17.1 kn without cavitation at deep waters, which it should be 20kn.
Also, on another discussion Crusader48 was talking about a special buff for Seawolf's MK48 torpedo.
I complety agree on this, and you did agree too :)
VIRGINIA CLASS SUBMARINE (BLOCK III)
(The image is 1024x167, same as the Seawolf image).
With the title of the thread, you were looking for this right? Lol
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in: https://www.military.com/equipment/virginia-class-attack-submarine-ssn
Having two photonics masts means increasing sensor range when surfaced in-game (Would work with Sensors Off) these are far by better than traditional periscopes having IR, LLTV, Grayscale modes.
Virginia Block III subs don't require flank array sonars, you've got the Large Aperture Bow array, provides far by better detection cone while keeping Seawolf's Wide Aperture Array explained above.
Length: 115m
Draft: 9.8m
Speed: 18.0m/s (35.0kn)
Max Depth: 600m
Health: 4.50
Stealth: 50%
All sources claim this submarine achieves over 25 knots, the real speed is classified but i think it's 35 knots.
The previous Los Angeles classes with older reactor achieved 32-33 knots, Virginia uses modern reactor and better technology and obviously it should be able to get 35 knots with ease like Seawolf.
This is also claimed to have the same noise level than Seawolf, meaning this submarine needs to cavitate at 20 knots like Seawolf, and also have 50% stealth, about the health, i'd say same as Yasen or a bit more.
In-game loadout as Lvl 10 would be:
4 Mk 48 Mod 7 torpedoes (With Seawolf buff) These would be unique Mk48s due for Virginia having faster torpedo reload robot systems (9 seconds?)
12 Tomahawks
6 Noisemakers (somewhere behind the sail)
2 Decoys
In conclusion, there might be better options for Level 10 submarines and still this is a pretty balanced one but i think the US Navy is over represented as finnbear mentioned before.
OHIO CLASS SUBMARINE
I'll only talk one thing about the Ohio...
As i mentioned before most American subs use noisemakers, and i suggest 2 noisemakers to Ohio also behind the sail and keep it's 1 decoy.
Yes... that's all about it.
BRITISH SUBMARINES
ASTUTE CLASS SUBMARINE!
Dark Version
A little more light.
(The image is 1024x167, same as the Seawolf image).
Another Lvl 10 suggestion!
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in:
http://www.military-today.com/navy/top_10_attack_submarines.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/the-equipment/submarines/attack-submarines/astute-class
Just like the Virginia, the Astute has an advantage having 2 photonic masts increasing sensor range when surfaced in-game.
Same as the Virginia Block III and ahead, they have a conformal sonar array in the bow but doesn't have a Wide Aperture Array, instead you have a similar system with a bigger flank sonar in the bow and a smaller sonar in stern that also does a triangulation for figuring out track range.
Yeah, the small size and having a low-noise pump jet reduces the noise levels making it one of the stealthiest submarine in the world.
Length: 97m
Draft: 10m
Speed: 15.4m/s (30.0kn)
Max Depth: 600m
Health: 4.0
Stealth: 50%
With this, i want to say that the speed in-game can be 28 knots minimum and not necessarily 30 knots.
The countermeasures are also classified but i assume it's noisemakers because NATO subs use noisemakers (Seawolf, Suffren) and yeah so.
6 Spearfish (With Seawolf buff) (I will talk about this below)
4-6 Noisemakers
2 Decoys
It doesn't sound like it but actually this submarine will be such a beast with the Spearfish torpedoes.
Conclusion, it's one of the best options for level 10 knowning there isn't lots of british platforms in the game to play with.
VANGUARD CLASS SUBMARINE
(The image is 1024x167, same as the Seawolf image).
This is the option that Crusader48 and me have been suggesting for a Lvl 10 submarine.
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard-class_submarine
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/vanguard-submarine/
Due to balancing reasons, the Vanguard would have 2 or 3 nuclear missiles in the game.
Very sadly it doesn't have any photonic mast and i think Lvl 10 subs should have one for better passive visual range.
The submarine is more focused on SLBMs than sensors and countermeasures imho, doesn't have the same advanced sonar technology than Seawolf, Los Angeles, Virginia, Astute, Trafalgar
This is pretty slow for Lvl 10 making it so vulnerable against anything... (Like Ohio)
Length: 150m
Draft: 12m
Speed: 12.8m/s (25.0kn)
Max Depth: 254m
Health: 6
Stealth: 0%
This would have the highest health than any submarine in mk48 which is a big plus.
I suggest this loadout:
4 Spearfish (With Seawolf buff)
2 Trident II D5
6 Noisemakers
2 Decoys
In conclusion i think it's not that good addition to the game, but it's a choice atleast! I still prefer Virginia...
RUSSIAN SUBMARINES/SHIPS
YASEN CLASS SUBMARINE
There is interesting stuff to talk about the Yasen, even tho it being already in the game.
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in: http://www.hisutton.com/Pr885_Severodvinsk_Class.html
Click the image for high resolution.
According to all of this info, the current countermeasure configuration in-game of the Yasen is realistic and balanced :)
I'd also give the Yasen 25% of stealth: https://eurasiantimes.com/crown-jewel-of-russian-navy-putin-mulls-permanently-stationing-its-yasen-class-submarines-near-us-shores/
Also, they have a much quieter and modern nuclear reactor than the previous Akula classes, improving it's stealth.
In other discussion, i was talking about the Futlyar torpedo.
Also i recommend lowering Yasens health to 4.05 atleast because it has a single low magnetic steel and not double steel hull like others, i agree it's bigger but it's health is to exagerated.
The rest of this submarine is very realistic/balanced as it is in the game, im talking about Igla, Decoys, Brahmos, Vodopads, the only stuff it needs is the Futlyar torpedo and stealth.
AKULA CLASS SUBMARINE
There is interesting also stuff to talk about the Akula despite it being already in the game.
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in: https://old.weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/GG01%20-%20Akula%20class%20%28Project%20971%20Shchuka-B%29.html
There are multiple version of Akula class submarines:
Akula I (Project 971)
Akula I Improved (Project 971I)
Akula II (Project 971U)
Akula III (Project 971M)
But i am not certain of which one is in the game, let's check why:
As you can see in this image, there are some rectangle shaped torpedo tubes above the round ones. These are 6 torpedo tubes called "External Tubes" which can't be reloaded (Like a VLS) these can carry Vodopads, Kalibr, Korund decoys, etc.
These tubes are carried by Akula Improved, Akula II and Akula III, not Akula I.
In the game we have 8 SET-65 torpedos which is completely fine because the Akula has 8 internal torpedo tubes divided in:
4x 533mm torpedo tubes
4x 650mm torpedo tubes
But, there are no weapons to shoot using external tubes as Akula.
Maybe, but it'd still be cool to have external tubes in the game.
I suggest this:
8 SET-65s in Intertal Tubes
2 Kalibr in External Tubes
2 Vodopad in External Tubes
2 Brosok in External Tubes
2 Igla
If that seems a little too op making Akula Lvl 7 and Ohio Lvl 6 might be a option.
BOREY-A CLASS SUBMARINE
I'll be working on the drawing (It's hard to find good models)
And, i know that you regret adding russian submarines but i think it'd be awesome to do this suggestion :)
All of the things i am going to talk about are found on detail in:
http://www.hisutton.com/Borei-A.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borei-class_submarine#
Similar to previous Akula classes, there are 6 external tubes (533mm) that are used to fire multiple weapons like Vodopads, Missiles, Decoys but in the case of Borei they can only fire 6 Brosok or Beryl decoys for defending torpedos, there's no back decoys or anything like that.
In the previous images, the torpedo tubes colored in green are 8 or 6 depending on Borei's version. In the case of Borei-A they're 6 instead of 8 which we find in older Boreis.
They also equip the 16-20 RSM-56 ballistic missiles, which are on par with Trident II D5's.
As you can see in this image, the bow sonar is a cylindrical array also used by the Gepard (Akula III class) not that good compared to Yasen sonar (conformal, spherical)
There's only 1 flank array sonar each side, and 1 towed array sonar. Doesn't have the Virginia's WAA technology or 2 towed arrays and LAB sonars, Virginia/Seawolf/Astute beats this in terms of detection capabilities but this is a ballistic missile submarine and adding the latest sensor technology would make this submarine a lot more expensive and non-affordable.
Length: 170m
Draft: 13.5m
Speed: 14.9m/s (30.0kn)
Max Depth: 254m
Health: 6.2
Stealth: 25%
Pretty fast for it's size and weight which is excellent speed for a SSBN. Super high health while having 25% of stealth with newer reactors, low-noise pump jets.
The loadout would be:
6 Futlyar with Torpedo Resistance Buff (doesn't apply to Yasen)
2 RSM-56 Bulava
6 Decoys (External Tubes)
6 Igla
If you lower the Futlyar torpedos to 4, you could add 2 Vodopads but imho i think keeping 6 Futlyar and 0 Vodopads is better.
I see it as an awesome Lvl 10 choice, like Virginia.
UDALOY-II CLASS DESTROYER
This destroyer can fit perfectly in the Level 10 due to it's weapons variety and high ASW capabilities.
CITATION: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udaloy-class_destroyer
In the Udaloy Class there are 2 types, Udaloy-I and Udaloy-II, in my honest opinion the II is better for a Lvl 10 because it has 8 Anti-Ship missiles (Sunburn) and the Udaloy-I had no Anti-Ship capability because they had 8 Torpedo Rockets instead (Silex SS-N-14)
These P-270 Moskit missiles are highly capable anti ship missiles that can go up to 2000 kn of speed and have a nice range. Even tho they're smaller, weaker and slower than the P-700 Granit missiles equipped by Kirov, the Udaloy still has highly capable missiles, in-game i'd put is damage as 0.90, 2000kn speed and 5.3s lifespan.
Udaloy-II equips 2 AK-130 guns, one at the bow and other at stern. This is the same gun that Kirov class equips so that means less effort to make a new gun into the game, lol.
The older Udaloys used to equip 8 SET-65 or Type 53 torpedoes but now these torpedo tubes were modified to fire 8 Vodopads instead (locations shown in the image) This makes the Udaloy a lot more better for ASW warfare since it's harder for subs to use their decoys correctly.
They have powerful 2 Kashtan CIWS for anti air defense, similar to Phalanx CIWS. In the game for balancing things more i'd give 0.35 of anti aircraft defense.
They have 2 KA-27 helicopters, much modern and advanced than previous KA-25 already in-game. The KA-27 can go at 150kn while the KA-25 only at 104kn, improving ASW.
The Udaloys also equip 64 short range SA-N 9 Gaunlet AA missiles but in the game i think 12-14 is balanced for defending of most attacks, keep in mind they would be short range SAMs so.
And now what is very amazing about the Udaloy is the RBU for attacking submarines, they're very effective weapons:
These are short range rockets launched from the ship and they fall into the water and keep going down deep, until they explode near the submarine and cause damage, like depth charges, in the game, this would work by hovering the cursor somewhere and fire, the rockets are suppossed to fall where you pointed your cursor at and damage any submarine near (It wouldn't be effective against the ships)
I'd say to add 8 of these in the game. With a blast zone, similar to the nuclear missile concept, but smaller. A direct hit would cause 0.5 damage per rocket and in the blast zone it would be 0.25-0.4 depending on how far it is.
The speed of these rockets would be 800-1000kn maybe? And lifespan 2.5-3.0 seconds because it max range is only 3km, such very short range weapon but effective. However i will let these stats up to you and all i wanted to do is this amazing suggestion.
Something very unique about these is also the speed, faster than most submarines it achieves 35 knots! allowing it for dodging torpedos in a better way and also chasing the submarines.
STATS:
Length: 163m
Draft: 6.2m
Speed: 18.0m/s (35.0kn)
Health: 8.5
Anti-Aircraft: 0.35
Stealth: 0%
WEAPONS:
2x 130mm Gun (Bow,Stern)
8x Sunburn Anti Ship
14x SA-N 9 Gaunlet Anti Air
8x Vodopad Torpedo Rockets
8x RBU-12000
2x KA-27 helis with 2x 82R.
SHIP BALANCING
KOLKATA CLASS DESTROYER
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkata-class_destroyer
Add 1 Sea King helicopter to the Kolkata for defending submarines (it's ASW capabilities are very bad) In real life it can carry up to 2 Helis but for balancing reasons of a Lvl 6, let's keep it 1.
The Sea King would have 2 MK54 torpedos and a top speed of 112kn. With this buff the Kolkata will be more playable and nicer for defending from enemy submarines.
Also, that is not the only buff because the Kolkata has 2 RBU-6000 launchers, which i talked about above, they have around 20 RBUs but for balancing reasons in the game i would do 4 RBUs.
Kolkata equips Maarech torpedo countermeasures, which i talk about below.
The reason for this buff is because Kolkata lacks ASW capability in the game and it needs way more power.
TYPE 055 CLASS DESTROYER
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_055_destroyer
Make it so that the Type 055 has 2 Harbin Z-9 Helicopters instead of 1 for better ASW capability too and also make it that it's health is 7.0 for making it stronger against torpedo hits specially.
No source claim it having a towed decoy agaisnt torpedos but im not sure if they actually have but it's classified info?... I don't know
ZUMWALT CLASS DESTROYER
Citation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUM-139_VL-ASROC
Zumwalt has very low health, 6.3 only! It's a Lvl 8 ship and it's easy to kill even if you're an Akula, i suggest increasing the health to 7.5 to balance everything more, people don't play this ship due to lack of ASW capabilities and low health and i think it should all get fixed.
The ship needs more ASROCs with slower reload and also faster. They take 20 seconds to reload and i think that's to slow because submarines will easily kill you in the momment you're still waiting 20 seconds for the reload, i suggest it decreasing to 12 for better ASW defense. These ASROCs reach speeds of up to 660kn instead of 388kn in the game, even though i don't know if bigger speed means increasing the drop range, in that case i'd prefer keeping 388kn, also due to the lack of helis (Only 1 Seahawk and not 2) I recommend increasing ASROCs to 6 for higher sub defense and so people will start playing with the Zumwalt frequently. Consider fix their drop range because they don't work at close range like it should do against subs.
YAMATO CLASS BATTLESHIP
Like... 8.77 Health and 20% Torpedo Resistance...??
Even a Bismarck has 40% torpedo resistance, even a Montana is stronger and the Bismarck has the same strength of Yam in the game, I think Yamato should have a bit more health than Iowa but less than Montana. 9.1 Health and 40% torpedo resistance would be more than ok for fixing this issue and being very strong.
Also, the Nakajima E4N planes aren't 80kn slow, their top speed is 125kn. (In Wikipedia it says the cruise speed is 80kn) Planes won't always fly a top speed because of fuel, but i suggest 110Kn minimum not 80 only...
ARLEIGH BURKE CLASS DESTROYER
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke-class_destroyer
The Arleigh Burke is actually a very bad platform in this game and it needs a whole remake. The Burke modeled in mk48.io is Flight I, the oldest and weakest one. This should be the order of things and changes Arleigh Burke needs:
First, make sure it will be Flight III now instead of Flight I
1. The Level:
In my honest opinion, the Burke should be moved to Level 9, not because im American or i like them more, i don't live in USA. The replacement ship for Level 5 might be the Padilla class which i will talk about when i update the article.
2. The Stats:
Increase the AA from 0.28 to 0.35
Increase the Health from 5.13 to 8.00 and add 10% Torpedo Resistance due to 130 tons of Kevlar armor in vital areas.
3. The Weapons Array:
Delete all of the Harpoons and add 8 LRASMS missiles instead (Long Range Anti Ship missiles) Which according to Wikipedia they can't be fired by Burkes, but the LRASM has been tested in Mk41 VLS and it worked, they claimed little software modifications would make Ticos and Burkes able to fire LRASM. I will talk about LRASM stats below.
Change the ESSM ammount from 4 to 8.
Add 6 ASROCs for Anti Submarine Warfare.
Make it have 2 Seahawks instead of 1.
Add the Nixie torpedo decoy which i will talk about below.
WEAPONS
LRASM Missile (FOR BURKE):
Length: 4.26m
Speed: 360.0m/s (700.0kn)
Lifespan: 5.5s
Reload: 9.5s
Damage: 0.85
Guided
Stealth: 25%
MAARECH/NIXIE TORPEDO DECOY (FOR KOLKATA/BURKE):
In the game this would work with a "weapon" which you use like any other weapon, once you use it a towed decoy on a cable will get longer until it get's to a certain point and stop there, make it divert the enemy torpedoes, but also make it that if 2 torpedos hit the decoy or it is active for 30 seconds it will dissapear and take 30 seconds to reload.
Spearfish Torpedo (FOR ASTUTE/VANGUARD):
Length: 7m
Speed: 33.4m/s (65.0kn)
Lifespan: 53.0s
Reload: 10.0s
Damage: 1.5
Torpedo Resistance Buff
Homing
Noisemaker (FOR NATO SUBS):
Length: 1m
Speed: 0kn
Lifespan: 53.0s
Reload: 12.0s
SLBM Trident 2 D5 or RSM-56 Bulava (FOR VANGUARD/BOREY):
Length: 13.41m
Speed: 993.9m/s (1931.9kn)
Lifespan: 6.5s
Reload: 30s-40s
Damage: 3-4 Direct Hit (1-2 Blast Zone)
No Guidance
P-270 Moskit (FOR UDALOY):
Length: 9.7m
Speed: 1028.8m/s (2000.0kn)
Lifespan: 5.3s
Reload: 9.5s
Damage: 0.9
Guided
SA-N 9 Gaunlet (FOR UDALOY):
Length: 3m
Speed: 950.0m/s (1846.6kn)
Lifespan: 4.7s
Reload: 15.0s
Guided
RBU 12000 (FOR UDALOY):
Length: 2.2m
Speed: 514.4m/s (1000.0kn)
Lifespan: 3s
Reload: 15.0s
Damage: 0.5 Direct Hit (0.25-0.4 Blast Zone)
No Guidance
With this discussion i have the purpose of covering everything i've suggested before in one, with citations and in-depth info.
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
All reactions