Replies: 9 comments 4 replies
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Please provide any feedback and, if able, verify that one or more of these concept sets would be sufficient for your data. Problem SpaceCreate discrete set of standard concepts to encapsulate disease "status" observations over time. Likely the majority of these observations will come from notes and consequentially be curated or NLP derived. One difficulty here will be when the determination of trajectory are not clear, specifically when there are contradictory observations, e.g. one tumor improved at the same time as another worsened. Proposed SolutionsSome suggested concept sets:
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Wait. We have the dynamic Episodes for that purpose. That's exactly their point. Why do we need another parallel set? |
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If we are going to do any meaningful longitudinal analysis of the disease throughout the patient journey it seems records of disease status whenever available is crucial. Outside of tumor registries (which of those I'm aware of have a single "update" record which may contain this sort of data), this will most likely be coming from NLP or manually curated data. Consequently, all we need to do is define a discrete list that is applicable to the wider community and ensure those concepts exist and are standard. Another value was mentioned for a study that could potentially be added to the set was "pseudo progression" though I'm not sure of the specific context or analytic value. |
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Commented on the task, but realised it should probably go here first - vote +1 for LOINC coding as preferred option, and also adding support for needing observations as well as episodes |
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Good question. Not easy. Which is why we had the idea that if somebody does the job for us, we will just use the data and put them in as "low level". However, my question is why do we need a set of concepts that are similar but differently named. The list we have is fine unless proven otherwise. If we don't have that, we are looking at auto-abstraction. That will be ugly, but it might be infinitely better than not having it. The logic is the following: We have diagnostic events and treatment events. The initial diagnosis sets the train off as "progressive disease", since the cancer grew to its current state and was detected. The assumption is that it will continue until there is a treatment event. If the treatment is surgery we expect an immediate "response". If the treatment is chemo or radio we need to wait till there is a diagnostic event telling us there is response. If not, it is still "progressive". Once it is in "response", we wait for either another diagnostic event telling us it is now "progressive" (or maybe stable), or a new treatment event indicating that the disease is again "progressive" (could be the patient has new symptoms or the diagnostics were done in another center). And so on. We know that such an algorithm is wicked, but would be a really cool research project. Makes sense? |
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This is an interesting discussion of terminology (ignoring Christian's initial comment about where this should be captured). My first reaction is that the LOINC code for progression would actually apply to any disease state and so storing it in a cancer-specific concept makes it less generalizable. However, the mCODE value set includes cancer-specific states, but these also overlap with diagnosis criteria such as leukemia "in remission". That potentially sets you up for data quality problems or at least disagreements in the data. If you are trying to ascertain progression there are multiple ways that could be understood. I like a more generic set of criteria as it would be more likely to be accurate and would apply across numerous use cases. Specific criteria such as "in remission" could be captured as separate data elements or one that specifically targets presence of tumor cells (versus overall status of patient's condition). What about splitting them? |
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@askanter: Not sure what you are asking. Do you want another set of dynamics of the disease? Or you don't want to reserve the current ones for cancer (they are not, btw)? |
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I see. Right now we have:
Does that not work? ) |
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Per the EU workshop discussion and @gkennos previous comments, seems RECIST is highly recommended as the way to go:
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See overall description of task here: #469
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